Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 stlscouter writes: So by posting a disclaimer at the end of a post in small print absolves you of checking facts? No; I've never represented my list as being 100% accurate. Ed is trying to say I've claimed that, but I haven't. I generated my list to show that the BSA dishonestly charters thousands of BSA units to government agencies. I've also generated a new list, past the date when the BSA said there would be no more government-sponsored units, and there are still over 3,000. The BSA appears to have thrown the problem to the individual councils, and only about 2/3rds of government charters have been re-chartered. Some councils, like the Sam Houston area council, appear to have done nothing. Every government chartered unit is a potential lawsuit against the government sponsor, the council, and the national BSA. Any moves to file a lawsuit, of course, would make sure that the chartering organization really IS a government entity prior to any legal action. And you will therefore stand 100% behind your membership and attendance figures for ALL of the organizations you do support (ACLU, Scouting for ALL, Fireside Theatre, et al), and you will vouch for the truthfulness of the criminal background checks those groups do? What are you babbling about? Firesign Theatre doing criminal background checks!? BWAHAHAHAHA! They're a COMEDY TEAM. Link to post Share on other sites
BrentAllen 10 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Hey, Merlyn - I bet you drive in the left lane, doing the speed limit exactly, to make sure no one is speeding. Lane monitor? I can see you crawling under the beds at hotels, checking for the tags on the mattresses as well. What cracks me up is you and the ACLU are out there looking for problems that don't exist. No one is complaining about schools chartering Cub Scout Packs, except for you. That practice has been going on for 75 years! How sad you have to waste your life chasing ghosts. I bet you were a heck of a hall monitor in grade school! Link to post Share on other sites
stlscouter 10 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Merlyn Sorry, I meant "Firesign". But then again John Wayne Gacy was just a clown at kids birthday parties.... No neeed to do background checks on folks who come in contact with the public. But you ignore the point-Will you stand 100% behind the membership numbers, transparent money dealings and lack of criminal behavior (proven or alleged) of those groups to which you belong and support? Link to post Share on other sites
DanKroh 11 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 funscout says: "I still wonder, though... In the case of the swans and penguins you mentioned, are they acting out sexually, or are they just "roommates" trying to raise their "children" together? In other words, are these animals trying to have sex with each other, or are they just showing the ritual mating signs? Could they be mentally impaired, instead of gay? Who knows?" Well, in the case of the rams in Oregon, there was definitely sexual activity. And 8% is a little high to be attributed to a "mental impairment". I believe that the penguins in NYC were also having sex with each other. Not sure about the swans. But there are certainly examples within those 450 species mentioned of observed of same-sex sex happening. But so which is it? At first, you implied that maybe these animals weren't really "gay" because they were only acting out transient sexual urges. Now when there are examples of same-sex, long-term "relationships", you are discounting them not really "gay" because are they really having sex? But what this really says is that the argument used by some that homosexuality is "unnatural" is at best, weak, or more factually, completely specious. If it's found in nature, it's natural by definition. Not a construct of man alone. The only thing that is a construct of man (through the Bible) is that homosexuality is a sin. Or do swans, penguins, and rams commit sin? Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 BrentAllen writes: Hey, Merlyn - I bet you drive in the left lane, doing the speed limit exactly, to make sure no one is speeding. Lane monitor? I can see you crawling under the beds at hotels, checking for the tags on the mattresses as well. What cracks me up is you and the ACLU are out there looking for problems that don't exist. No one is complaining about schools chartering Cub Scout Packs, except for you. That practice has been going on for 75 years! How sad you have to waste your life chasing ghosts. I bet you were a heck of a hall monitor in grade school! Apparently atheists have no civil rights in your view; public schools chartering Packs are the same as if a public school's baseball team said "no Jews allowed". Public schools can't violate the civil rights of atheist students. stlscouter writes: But you ignore the point-Will you stand 100% behind the membership numbers, transparent money dealings and lack of criminal behavior (proven or alleged) of those groups to which you belong and support? What are you talking about? What "membership numbers" does a comedy team have? The four of them? Link to post Share on other sites
BrentAllen 10 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 "If it's found in nature, it's natural by definition." So.... there are no abnormalties found in nature? Two-headed animals are...natural? "If it's found in nature, it's natural by definition. Not a construct of man alone. The only thing that is a construct of man (through the Bible) is that homosexuality is a sin." Hey funscout, let's follow the lead of those who want to get rid of religion and do away with the Bible. Only natural law. All the males in a community will fight it out to see who is the dominate male, and gets to breed with all the females. If the males want to kill all the newborn males, so they won't grow up to pose a threat, so be it - natural law. Besides being against many religions, homosexuality is against the natural law and order of the preservation of the species. While man is part of nature, he is civilized (showing evidence of moral and intellectual advancement; humane, ethical, and reasonable). Religion provides the bedrock and defines moral and ethical behaviour for many. I don't think the left will have much luck convincing the major religions in this country to change their outlook on homosexuality, so they will end up following Ted Kennedy - calling us bigots. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2777 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 >>Not a construct of man alone. The only thing that is a construct of man (through the Bible) is that homosexuality is a sin. Or do swans, penguins, and rams commit sin? Link to post Share on other sites
stlscouter 10 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Merlyn You still have not answered- You have been listed as regional director for Scouting for All by your own addmission. You have given research documents to the ACLU by your own admission. Do you stand 100% behind their membership numbers? Do these organizations have 100% transparent money dealings? Prove to me that there are no (proved or alleged) criminals in either of these 2 groups. Prove to me that there has never been a wrong doing by any member of these groups nor has there ever been a "cover-up" to those activities. Link to post Share on other sites
BrentAllen 10 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 "Apparently atheists have no civil rights in your view; public schools chartering Packs are the same as if a public school's baseball team said "no Jews allowed". Public schools can't violate the civil rights of atheist students." No, I simply believe in the legal concept of having standing in order to sue. If a Pack chartered by your school refused to let you join because you are an atheist, then fine, sue. No one in our area has complained that their rights were violated or denied, so why should we have to move our Pack? When the father out in California tried to sue the school because the Pledge stated "under God" he was denied because he did not have standing. I believe that same concept should apply to each school - they are the CO, not the School District or State Board or Education or US Dept. of Ed. Link to post Share on other sites
DanKroh 11 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Barry says: "Im scared to even hear your opinion of adults wanting to give in to their urges toward innocent defenseless children. This is a scary discussion, and from a member of the APA no less. Maybe it is time for the subject to move on." How sad. I agree that when the discussion degenerates into "and I bet you support pedophilia, too. wink, wink, nudge, nudge", yes it is time for the subject to move on. My only reason for bring comparisons to animal behavior is to deconstruct the arguments of anti-gay proponents who erroneously think that homosexuality only exists because humans "choose" to be that way. Brent Allen still wants to say that homosexuality is "against natural law". Well, there are many other things that men do in the name of civilization that are against natural law, like caring for the weak and elderly instead of allowing them to be culled. Of course, human behavior is governed by our higher functions and our ability to process abstract feelings such as morality, reciprocity, love, etc. We live beyond our instincts, yet we can't seem to rise above that instinct of "different is bad", can we? Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2777 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 >How sad. I agree that when the discussion degenerates into "and I bet you support pedophilia, too. wink, wink, nudge, nudge", yes it is time for the subject to move on. Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 stlscouter writes: Merlyn You still have not answered- You have been listed as regional director for Scouting for All by your own addmission. Yes, I am. You have given research documents to the ACLU by your own admission. Pretty much, though I don't know if data mined from the internet counts as "research documents". Do you stand 100% behind their membership numbers? Do these organizations have 100% transparent money dealings? Prove to me that there are no (proved or alleged) criminals in either of these 2 groups. Prove to me that there has never been a wrong doing by any member of these groups nor has there ever been a "cover-up" to those activities. Why should I? You're the one bringing up red herring arguments. Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 BrentAllen writes: No, I simply believe in the legal concept of having standing in order to sue. If a Pack chartered by your school refused to let you join because you are an atheist, then fine, sue. No one in our area has complained that their rights were violated or denied, so why should we have to move our Pack? Because the BSA doesn't want thousands of unwinnable lawsuits. It's really, really dumb to break laws as long as you can 'get away' with it, not to mention unethical. When the father out in California tried to sue the school because the Pledge stated "under God" he was denied because he did not have standing. Newdow is now representing a number of atheists families where standing is no longer the question. I believe that same concept should apply to each school - they are the CO, not the School District or State Board or Education or US Dept. of Ed. So you'd prefer public schools to spend money on unwinnable lawsuits? Why? Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Atheists have the same civil right as Catholics, Jews, Methodists, dentists & Nazis! And let's not forget the SCOTUS ruled the BSA was well within it's Constitutional rights for kicking atheists out. And a public school chartering a BSA unit is not a violation of anything except your opinion, Merlyn. What civil right of yours are being denied, Merlyn? And why won't you stand behind 100% behind the membership numbers of the groups you belong to? Oh yeah I know I'm a liar and I can't learn! Slash & slander, Merlyn. That's all you're good at! You should be a politician! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Ed writes: Atheists have the same civil right as Catholics, Jews, Methodists, dentists & Nazis! Yep. And let's not forget the SCOTUS ruled the BSA was well within it's Constitutional rights for kicking atheists out. Yep, because they ruled that the BSA was a private organization. And a public school chartering a BSA unit is not a violation of anything except your opinion, Merlyn. Completely wrong. Public schools aren't private organizations. Link to post Share on other sites
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