CS Pack Leaders - Major politics - help!

[LALeader 10]

I am a den leader (1st year) dealing with a major pack leader headache. We have a pack committee chair and a Unit commissioner who are married and creating all kinds of political crap in our pack. Tonight I was criticized because my boys are achieving their rank badges at blue and gold (no other den is). That's what I was taught at leader training - now my boys are being questioned???? I'm just upset looking for the magic advice that has worked for someone else who has come up against a brick wall in the past and was able to deal better with it than I am. This is a couple who is defined as 'having a heart of gold' but walks away with popcorn $$. He's paid back the money and now all is well. The parents are in an uproar because he won an award from council but no one trusts their kids with him. I try to stay away but their positions make it pretty impossible to work well with the pack.

[ripulan 10]

The Blue and Gold is a good time for Cub Scouts to receive their ranks. Many units in my district present their awards at this event and also recognize any Scouts who may have earned their ranks before. The fact that your scouts have been able to finish their requirements shows that you and they have done a lot of work and should be congratulated.

Let your DE (District Executive)or some other scouter you trust know about your concerns. How do the other Den leaders in your pack feel about this?

[LALeader 10]

The leaders are mixed - they've been in the organization for a long time. The majority feel that our pack would grow more without them because they are very unliked and not trusted. I've had parents tell me they won't join because of them. You can tell he's the kind of guy noone ever listened to and now he has a forum to stand up and talk and he never stops. I realize that they are here to stay and there is a place for everyone - I did explore talking with our DE and these are pack politics. Council stays out of it. One big issue - we had 2 new cubs join my den - wolf - one is in first grade and should be in tigers. This guy is the tiger leader and the parents absolutely do not want them in their den. They asked if there was any way that they could be together. Since there are only 3 months left in our year, I went to our cubmaster, explained the situation. We both felt that if it brought 2 new boys to the program, great. Next year they could be split. They are into their 2nd year waiting to join so their son wouldn't be exposed to him. The cubmaster and I talked with him - he didn't say he had a problem with it - they now have uniforms and are earning their badges. Now his wife has a problem with it (pack committee chair) and is taking the matter to council. It's selfish - the boys are the ones who are going to suffer.

[Twocubdad 665]

That's an unfortunate situation and is a good example why unit commissioners should be unaffilliated with the units they serve. The UC should be the disinterested party to whom you can take such problems.

 

You didn't really say what their objection is, but there is a lot of backup in the Cub Scout Leaders' Handbook that boys should advance at their own pace and that they should receive their award at the next pack meeting.

 

Our pack encourages boys to earn their rank badges in the Feb - March time frame, before spring sports and activities kick in.

 

In some cases, it's just a matter or organization inertia. Our pack, for example, is still in the mindset that all the Tiger badges should be awarded at the pack picnic in May. But that's just a holdover from the old Tiger program, where the Tigers didn't really earn a rank, they all just graduated in to a Wolf den. Last year it just happened that all the Tigers did earn their badges in May, but I know we have a few Tigers now who are on track to earn their badges earlier. We're going to have to adjust our Tiger ceremonies accordingly.

 

Advancement is one of the top Methods of Cub Scouting and prompt recognition is a key element of advancement. Stick to your guns, you have the "law" on your side.

(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[dancinfox 10]

I would go to your District Commissioner and ask their opinion of the situation. Also ask their opinion on having the unit commissioner for your unit have their spouse be the Pack Committee Chair. You might get some help from them.

dancin

[acco40 95]

Awards should be given in a timely fashion after they are earned. At the Cub Scout level for Tiger, Wolf and Bear many individuals can act as "Akela." Parents, grandparents, teachers, etc. can all be Akela and sign off on requirements. For a Webelos den, the Webelos leader or his/her designee are the only ones who can sign off on requirements. Once signed off, the CM, CC or UC should not question the Scouts.

 

By the way, my wife if CC for a pack that I am a UC for. I'm also a Webelos den leader for the same Pack. However, I've kept my UC spot pretty much underwraps (just became UC in Oct.) and will be leaving the Pack as den leader this week. As for my wife, as soon as we can find a replacement CC, she will "retire." Our sons will have all gone on to Boy Scouts.

 

I like the idea of contacting the ADC or DC if you seem to be having a problem with your UC. The UC should not be giving advice unless asked. He/she is there to help things, not run things.(This message has been edited by acco40)(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Eagledad 2777]

Hi LA

Without really seeing the other side, its hard to give one solution. Here are a few things that need understanding. Its very easy to be popular at the district level when you volunteer and work hard on district projects and not be seen as a terrible leader at the unit level. We have purposely pushed adults to be more active at the District level just to get them out of our hair.

 

Second, you have a responsibility to help your Cubs grow the best they can under the guidelines and training given to you. There is little the committee can change unless you are just out-right hurting the boys. But you should be willing to except guidence. Given that, you have to have fun and feel rewarded in your efforts. Other than the SM position, Den Leading was the hardest job I did in scouting. If you are to get your scouts through cubs, you need to pace yourself so that you dont loose enthusiasm before your second year of Webelos. There will always have to be some give in take in this program because adults are basically self-serving and usually the strongest adult wins. But too many times, the boys loose. Giving in sometimes makes you the big winner.

 

But, before you make those bitter choices, call the District Commissioner as suggested earlier, and I would call the District Chairman as well. Dont call them emotionally in anger or frustration, but more on a fact-finding mission. Ask questions that lead them to answers, but also to asking you questions. Dont appear biased against any adult, but ask your questions and find out the facts, and their suggested solution. You will learn a lot about these adults, and they may learn a lot from you as well. But, you should not come off as trying to make changes, let change come from another source. However, this is a volunteer organization, and you never can predict how adults will act, or react.

 

And like I said, maybe you will have to be the one to change. I was taught by a very wise woman my first year of scouting to start all my actions and thoughts with this phrase, THE BEST THING FOR THESE BOYS IS? Then proceed in that direction. Every time an adult says me, I or you. Restart the conversation with that phrase. I have changed the direction of many committee discussions with that phrase.

 

Good luck, and press on. Your boys need you.

 

Barry

 

[LALeader 10]

Thank you for your responses! It was wonderful to see that there is a support system here. I appreciate the advice!

[LauraT7 13]

first -

line 'em up against that brick wall and shoot 'em! That'll at least give you a fresh start! ;-)

 

Almost anyone will tell you it's trouble when too many family members get their fingers in the same pie, instead of "scouting" you =then get a family run club.

 

Seriously - sounds like its time for some new leadership! Have you talked to your charter Org rep? perhaps they aren't aware that this couple's overbearing tactics are tarnishing the future of your pack?

 

If you get no help from them or the council - it sounds like your choice is put up with it or move. - In some ways, being a den leader, you can choose to do things YOUR way ( the SCOUT way) as you have been doing (and it sounds like you're doing a good job!) and avoid the pack people except where necessary. Wouldn't be my favorite way to go, but if you are the only one that wants and will push for change, you may not have a choice.

 

Boys deserve to advance when THEY are ready - and if your boys are ready in FEb or at Blue & Gold - then that's fine. In many places, the 'scout year' seems to run from feb - feb, or march to march - esp when you get up to Webelos crossing over to Boy Scouts. If they get their advancements then, no reason they can't start working on the next one - they're all going to probably be together in the same den anyway next year.

 

or you can transfer to a new pack. many have done that - it happens. It's usually the adults that mess up scouting - not the kids!

 

We had a similar thing "almost" happen - a very strong family - bullying son, and Dad wanted to be SM. Mom had been (and still is)troop treasurer for 3 yrs and held onto the checkbook like it was theirs. CC was their best friend - the sons grew up like brothers. Lots of troop decisions were starting to be made in their living rooms instead of committee meetings. our troop split into factions, for them and against them. It was VERY messy, and we are still feeling the repercusiions of it. Lots of bad feelings, and recruitment fell to nothing, the boys lost out on activities because of the childish power struggles by the adults. A SAD, SAD thing, and not very "scoutlike".

 

We have a new SM and a solid team behind him now. The troublemakers make a feeble attempt once in awhile to stir things up and are quickly re-directed. It has been a tough road. if you feel yu have enough supporters to turn the Pack around - then go for it. But if you don't have enough, try and can't control the situation, the boys lose all around.

 

good luck!

 

LauraT

[LALeader 10]

Yes, thank you - I appreciate your advice on this. One of the problems I see is that he is liked (tolerated maybe?) at the Council level (he's UC) Here's an example of what I dealt with at the last leader meeting:

I had 2 new cubs interested in joining scouts. One should be a tiger, one a wolf. I am wolf den leader. The mother comes to me and says she really wants the boys to join and both in my den. She lists several reasons, one of convenience, the other that if her younger son has to join the tiger den she and her husband will not enroll him because the UC is also the tiger den leader. She doesn't trust him (she's known the family for several years) she doesn't like the reputation he has within the organization, etc. I just listen. I tell her I will talk to our cubmaster and get back to her. I talk to the cubmaster and the UC/tiger leader following our last pack meeting and I say that the parent for a variety of reasons (sparing the main one) the parent would like both boys to be in the wolf den. It is my feeling that we only have 3 more months of our year and that if it brings 2 new cubs to our program, I don't have a problem or issue with it. The cubmaster agrees completely and the UC shrugs his shoulders and walks away. I let the parent know all is well for the remainder of this year and that next year after she has experience in the program, perhaps she may want to split the boys into different dens. She's fine with that. I should mention that she was recruited by another one of my den families. So both boys join - they've attended meetings and now they are set to get their badges. At the leader meeting the UC's wife (our pack committee chair) blows a gasket - yells - that having this boy in my den is disrespecful to her - how come she doesn't know about this - etc. I calmly reply and explain the steps I took and the conversations I had. (all the time not revealing any of the reasons the parent has stated - just saying parent reasons) The cubmaster stands behind me 100%. I point out that the issue is the boys. The boys are happy - advancing, etc. The parents had them in a full uniform in 3 days after joining to participate in a den activity we did. She says she's taking the matter to council - I understand that is her right. The cubmaster says he will go to bat for these boys because he understands the parent's reasons. This was Tuesday - last night the mother calls me wondering why our awards chairperson (friend of the UC & PCC) called and said that it is highly unusual for both her sons to be in my den. Why is this and did at any time - me - the den leader suggest any negative reason that they should not be in the tiger den or say anything negative about the tiger den leader. Hello - are we in scouting or junior high? I explain to the mother what happened at the leader meeting and tell her I will keep her posted. I also want to say that after the meeting I went up to the PCC and apologized for her feeling disrespected and in no way was that my intention for her to feel that way. She screamed at me to get out of her face. (I don't know whether to be more upset that she reacted this way to another adult - be it a new den leader - or that she is trusted with our children.)

[Quixote 10]

1. Tigers do not belong in Wolf dens earning Wolf badges, they belong with other Tigers doing Tiger things. If the parents don't want the younger brother in the Tiger Den, then he shouldn't be in Cub Scouts.

 

2. The COR is the person that needs to get involved here - he/she is the only one that can replace the Committee Chair. The UC doesn't have that much authority, i don't think.

 

How did the boys get assigned to dens earlier in the year? Did the Cubmaster do it, or was the CC in on it? If the CC was in on it, I understand how she could feel that you went behind her back to get something done that shouldn't have been done (Tiger in a Wolf Pack).

 

Other Opinions available for less than $.02

 

YIS

Quixote

[LALeader 10]

I in no way went behind anyone's back - I explained that and the parent's reasons. Our CC is married to our UC?Tiger den leader. If they would have joined when our pack organized at the beginning of the year that would be one thing - I agree with you on a general policy basis of what boys belong where. Because this was a specific problem/issue is why it was discussed and adressed separately. The point being this adult's behavior.

[SR540Beaver 116]

Since there was only 3 months left in the year, I think I would have signed up the Wolf and allowed his little brother to attend meetings and participate. Happens all the time, everywhere. When the new year starts, sign up the little brother as a Wolf and promote the older to Bears. We really shouldn't mix the apples with the oranges in official membership and rank. Allowing a younger sibling to attend and participate isn't against any rules and no one can complain. The only difference is that the younger sibling won't be awarded for his activities since he isn't a cub yet.

[ScoutNut 147]

Quixote & KWC57 are quite correct. The younger brother should NOT have been allowed to join as a Wolf. I understand the parents & Packs issues, but it does a disservice to the boys to break the rules like this.

 

The younger boy did not meet the BSA joining requirements for a Wolf den, therefore he also did not meet the requirements to receive a Wolf rank badge. Even if he did all of the book requirements he should not be given the Wolf rank. If you would have had him simply participating as a tag-a-long or working with one of his parents on his Tiger rank while taging-a-long, that would have been very different. What happens to this boy when he wants to join a Boy Scout Troop with his older brother? Remember, he will not meet the joining requirements for Boy Scouts either. Do you make sure the Troop leadership is all from your current Pack and will go along again as they have now? Do you try to force a Troop to take him? If you do break the rules again and get him into a Troop when he does not meet the requirements, what happens when he works for years to earn his Eagle only to be turned down because some of his paperwork and possibly ranks and merit badges are incorrect?

 

I know you are trying to do what is best for the boy and his family, and problems that far down the road do not seem like they would matter much. Unfortunately they do.

[ScoutNut 147]

If this couple are indeed causing families to either leave or never join the pack, then you need to discuss this with your Charter Organization Rep. Your Charter Organization, in the form of your COR, is the only one who can "fire" Pack leaders or committee members. The position of Unit Commissioner is a Council one and your COR has no control over that, but they do over CC and TL.

 

I would also talk to your Tiger/Wolf family and try to find out if her problem with the Tiger Leader is a Youth Protection one. That can be very serious.