Religious segregation within scouting

[scoutingagain 20]

Gern,

 

My take on your million dollar question. The beauty of the BSA system is you get to choose. If you want your son to be in a unit that accepts all religious denominations you can find one. If others want an all Christian unit, LDS unit, Jewish unit, Muslim or other religious unit they can. You, Jews, Muslims, and Christians are all free to participate in scouting in a unit that best fits each persons needs and interests.

 

SA

[Trevorum 24]

shaman, welcome to the forums! We're glad you've joined us.

 

As I recall, we have recently discussed this very point (you can do a search for that thread); yes there are some Scouters who tend to very narrowly define "God" as being the the Judeo-Christian-Islamic deity. These folks, while good Scouters, are apt to be discomfitted when confronted with scouts and Scouters of minority faiths. I always take the time to remind such folks that "BSA does not define what constitutes belief in God or the practice of religion" (BSA policy statement, 6/2000). And, as OGE has pointed out in another related thread, BSA partners with a diversity of faiths in the religious awards program including many non-Christian and several pre-Christian faiths.

 

That being said, I'm not sure that "Ralph" would qualify any more than the Holy FSM with his noodly appendages. (However, I'm quite sure that someone is going to try...)

[RickChappell 10]

Gern,

I don't take your comments with any malice whatsoever. The challenge is that the segregate implies an action. Your comment "I think segregating your troop by your faith" implies an action that LDS units take. That's the question. I'm suggestion that they don't. As a matter of fact, I may be wrong, but I don't believe a unit can legitimately exclude a boy because his beliefs are different than the CO.

I suggested this earlier, and Trevorum made the point as well. They are segregated not due to action, but by circumstances. You won't generally see an LDS unit go out of their way to advertise through programs other than individual boy recruiting. In my district, I wanted to participate in a school night and was met with resentment by local units because they felt I was trying to "steal" their boys.

I agree that diversity is important, but there's a lot of ways to fulfill that need. In my mind, District and Council activities are much better suited to meet this need. I found these a great way to introduce my Scouts to other techniques and methods as well as groups.

I will agree that many time LDS units don't participate in as many of these as they probably should. As a Stake leader (multiple wards form a stake) I currently serve essentially as a unit commissioner for the 6 wards in my stake (we have leaders involved in the different age groups and each of us work with different groups - I work with Scout Troops, one of my fellows works with Varsity, etc). One of my goals is to encourage all of the units to be more active in these activities. I'm happy to say that at the last camporee, 5 of our 6 units were represented. That's not too bad whether you're LDS or not.

 

[Region 7 Voyageur 10]

I think SemperParatus hit it on the head. If a church wants to charter a unit and limit the membership to members of their church they should have that right. Membership restrictions like that carry some baggage that may not be positive.

 

I do not like seeing units that seem to not want to associate with other units at the district or council level or allow their Scouts to interact with other Scouts.

 

In 1973 I met an LDS Scout at summer camp. I still remember the many hours that we discussed our religious beliefs and came to understand each other better. I was a Lutheran at that time. I believe that the interaction of youth of different faith traditions can lead to better understanding and respect for others beliefs.

 

[scoutingagain 20]

Rick,

 

You said,"As a matter of fact, I may be wrong, but I don't believe a unit can legitimately exclude a boy because his beliefs are different than the CO."

 

I maybe wrong as well, but I do believe individual COs may limit membership of units they sponsor to members of their own organization or their faith. What they can't do is open membership to those the BSA excludes. They may also not limit membership based on race, but as pointed out, demographics and the allowance for religious dicrimination can effectively limit diversity by race. As FScouter pointed out, they may also run the program according to their own policies and guidelines, as long as they don't conflict with those of the BSA. This allows some units not just be religiously segregated but also allows some unit to discriminate based on gender. Some COs do not allow women to be leaders for example. If you don't agree with that, you are free to find a CO that does allow women to be leaders.

 

SA

 

[GernBlansten 10]

I guess it comes down to our own philosophies on raising children. My bias is to expose my children to as many things as possible, interact with people not like themselves, do things I have never had the opportunity to do. Of course this comes with some boundaries. However, I see some parents who do the exact opposite. My brother-in-law will not allow his children to attend public schools for reasons of liberal indoctrination. He also won't allow his children to interact with others outside his church. Since his church doesn't sponsor a BSA unit, his sons are not allowed to join BSA. Even if they did sponsor one, if they didn't restrict it to their own church members, he would not allow it. His children are very sheltered, very much under his thumb.

Our philosophies are different. I don't agree with his, but it is his right to have it.

[captainron14 11]

There is nothing in any offical Church policy/directive stating that you have to be a member (LDS) to join a LDS sponsored Troop.

As a matter of fact I was Scoutmaster of a LDS Troop who half of it's membership was not LDS.

I know of LDS Troops where they are the only Troop in town. They are the defacto Community Troop.

There are very few differences, no Sunday Camping, no Coffee at meetings, prayer at the begining/end of meetings. The advancement, uniform, program are basicly the same.

That being said, there are isolated LDS Troops who have misguided leaders/ CORs who say you have to join the Church in order to join their Troop. These people are not following church policy, in fact they are going against it.

This can happen anywhere and not just with the LDS Church. You will find people in every denomination who in fact are bigots towards those not of their own faith. And sometimes this spills over into orginizations like BSA. These people are not only a bad example of their church, they are a bad example of humanity.

[GernBlansten 10]

CaptnRon, you have changed my opinion on the way LDS units operate within the BSA. My impression was that LDS units wanted to be isolated from the rest of BSA. Other scouters I interact with share this same impression. I will now go to them and dispel those prejudices. Thank you.

[captainron14 11]

GernBlansten,

You may be correct about "some" LDS units when you say,

"My impression was that LDS units wanted to be isolated from the rest of BSA. Other scouters I interact with share this same impression."

 

I think this is a direct result of little training and tenure in the position. If you are not trained (knowledge of the program)and don't stay around long (1 year or less), people gravitate to what/who they know and are comfortable with. They are often fearful of the unknown. So they keep to themselves. Sad.

Those LDS leaders who are true Scouters have no such problems. In fact they spend a lot of time fighting the same problems.

You will find this problem through out the Church. Something the leadership is trying to change.