Scouts' debt to cost their members

[seabear 10]

Let see for your ten dollars registration that goes to national, you get a membership card, insurance coverage, The "SCOUTING"magazine, merit badge pamphlets for $3.25 each, literature and texts dealing in scouting, the right to wear the uniform and uses the BSA logo, The uses of BSA properties /facilities, and programs; not a bad deal...Most camps have been donated, or should have been paid in full a long time ago...

As for the "Professional Staff and operations" well that is another story, I will say that there are the Camp Rangers whom deserves everything they get and much more... Once a program comes down from National, it is the volunteers who take it from there, the volunteers are there at the unit level, at the district level, as well as the council level and beyond....countless hours of service....On funding, well whom pays for scouting it is us, we support it, we pay for it, we run it.....

If the council need the funding let them pay for it; they created debt.....

[SemperParatus 1]

I am sure this has been covered before, but...

 

Is one's individual membership conferred by the BSA National Council or the local Council?

 

I was always under the impression that local Council conferred membership. If that is the case, then this Council could revoke membership for nonpayment of the fee?

 

I like the idea of all units in Monmouth petitioning for transfer to another council.

[fotoscout 15]

$52.00 OR "Support your Council" would be a better alternative!

How many of those people who are now _itching and moaning did not participate in the Popcorn fundraiser?

How many of those people who are now _itching and moaning never support district or council events?

How many of those people who are now _itching and moaning never attend the in-council summer camp program / or day camp programs? There are regular audits done of the council's financial records and they have an executive board, it's simply too easy to cite bad management as the cause. If the membership of this council showed loyalty, and actively supported there own efforts, this would never have come to pass.

[OldEagle4Life 10]

If that is the case, then it begs to ask the question why people aren't supporting that council, why they aren't doing popcorn, why they aren't going to the sumer camps?

 

If they are (we have seen no information on some of these aspects, so all any of us here can do is speculate) then the problem does indeed lie elsewhere, and while I would LOVE to blame it on bad management it very well could indeed be in large part do to these other circumstances.

 

But what if it isn't? What if there really is a bigger problem. Even if it is "disloyalty" to the council (I personally think disloyalty begets disloyalty), if the council/distrcits, etc... did not have good programs, I for one, would not want my scouts or my own children to spend time trying to improve the program and instead go where there was a good program, at least activity wise. While that might seem morally ambigious, in reality, that is what most people do, and can we blame them!! Why should most people work to save a dying ship, when the "SS Good Scouting Program at neighboring council" is alive and well and can provide those good experiences.

 

The bottom line is there really were better ways to go about this, I can't tell you what they are, my financial knowlege is not very extensive, but a warning sign a warning letter, a heads up SHOULD have been issued 2 years ago, if the money issues were bad. If one was, well, then i stand down and say its their own fault for not working with the council to solve the problem then.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

well, its all over

 

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060127/NEWS/60127004

 

Its against the by-laws of the BSA to so what they wanted. Think the whole situation needs to be reviewed on how things got so far out of hand financially and the process they went through to decide to assess the 52 dollars.

[TheFourGuardians 10]

 

"How many of those people who are now _itching and moaning did not participate in the Popcorn fundraiser?"

 

 

Our troop doesn't generally do popcorn, actually. We have other means of making money.

 

"How many of those people who are now _itching and moaning never support district or council events?"

 

Not sure what that means, actually. I believe many scouts attend some of these events, but I can't say I've ever even seen an invitation to a parent to help out.

 

"How many of those people who are now _itching and moaning never attend the in-council summer camp program / or day camp programs?"

 

What do you mean by this now? I know my troop generally does a whole lot to help out at our summer camp, adults especially. Day camp programs I know nothing about.

 

"There are regular audits done of the council's financial records and they have an executive board, it's simply too easy to cite bad management as the cause. If the membership of this council showed loyalty, and actively supported there own efforts, this would never have come to pass."

 

 

That doesn't seem like it actually means anything. What do you mean by "support the council?" Is it like supporting our troops? It just doesn't make sense. I'm a scout, so I don't know the details behind the scenes, but I'm not so certain that I can figure out how the loss of over 1,200,000 can be due to a lack of support.

 

[nldscout 18]

TheFourGuardians

The reason the popcorn question comes up is council gets 30+ percent of popcorn sale to fund all the programs your troop likes doing, so if your not selling popcorn then your troop is getting a free ride.

 

So I would propose that you pay council 30% of your fall fundraiser to support the programs and support you enjoy.

[scoutldr 726]

It's amazing to me that someone, like the SE maybe, didn't check with National about the appropriateness of the $52 fee. I'm sorry, but the professional staff and Executive Board of this council look like idiots. Or was it all a publicity stunt?

[John-in-KC 311]

From the article OGE posted:

 

"In fact, Frank Davidson, chairman of the Camping Committee, said at that meeting that the council has already budgeted for the $390,000 it expects to receive if each of the county's 7,937 Boy Scouts pay the $52 fee."

 

Anticipating money not yet in the bank, are we? That's the same logic that has this Council borrowing for the basic bills!!!!

 

If I was a COR in this council, or a Chartered Partner Executive Officer, I'd sure want to see the results of the previous years' Friends of Scouting campaign.

 

I reiterate my comments earlier: It's time and past time for a forensic audit of this Council. Something isn't right...

[fotoscout 15]

First you have to understand that at some level Scouting becomes a business. Unfortunate but true. Camp costs have to be paid, staff costs have to be paid, and facility expenses have to be paid. All of those costs and more are paid from revenue brought into the Council. Revenue brought into Council comes from many places; interest on an endowment, direct corporate giving, FOS, Camp profits, Popcorn profits, United Way (??) or similar organizations, and more. Your $10.00 annual registration goes directly to National and does not contribute to the Councils financial health in any way.

 

So, when people say, Support your Council it means to participate in Council events and activities. Why? Because many of them contribute to the main revenue sources for your Council.

 

Popcorn for exampleTrails End Popcorn is the National Fundraiser for BSA. Some of the profits go to the unit, and some of the profits go to the Council. I dont know if National gets anything out of this. So when you participate in the Council sponsored Popcorn fundraiser, you are helping to support you Council. The flip side is that the unit can raise more money for itself by conducting its own fundraiser.

 

But here is the conflict.. that same troop expects the Council office staff to process applications, maintain records , issue tour permits, and process Eagle packages competently and on a timely basis. The same troop expects to find the local camp in tip top shape when they come for their once a year $65.00 (total cost) weekend with 40 boys and leaders. That Troop has not contributed one dime, but expects service and hospitality.

 

So when I say Support your Council, I dont mean for you to get up and cheer for them. Hopefully its a call for you to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Go out there and be a part of your councils program. If it isnt up to your standards, then be a part of making it better. Participate in the Popcorn fundraiser, do summer camp in your home councils camp, invite FOS to your unit.

 

Selfish vs. selfless.......you decide!!!

 

TheFourGuardians, I hope you have a better understanding of the concept, support comes in many ways.

 

To many others, maybe this will make you stop and think for a minute.

 

[ManyIrons 10]

Unless a unit has been attending council events without paying then no one has been getting a "free ride".

 

And as for what units expect from their councils all I can say is that I expect them to do their job -- as they expect me to do mine. If processing paperwork competently and on time is a burden then they're not doing their job. That portion of their responsibilities should have nothing to do with popcorn money or FOS.

 

Flame on.

[FScouter 24]

"... the council has already budgeted for the $390,000 it expects to receive if each of the county's 7,937 Boy Scouts pay the $52 fee."

 

"Anticipating money not yet in the bank, are we?"

 

That's what a budget is, anticipation of income not yet earned, and anticipation of expenses not yet incurred.

[John-in-KC 311]

At the Council level, Scouting IS a business. Granted, it's supposed to be a non-profit business, but it is a business.

 

As such, when the Council drafts its budget, the reasonable and prudent man would anticipate revenues. He would anticipate those revenues based on a thorough understanding of business rules and practices. He would not anticipate revenues that are based on flawed and faulty assumptions.

 

The Council "user fee" was based on a flawed and faulty assumption; it's PROHIBITED by National.

 

I'm a COR. I expect my council to act judiciously and prudently in the stewardship of its accounts. As I have said several times before in this thread, if I were in this Council, I would be working to gather enough other CORs to force a business meeting, a vote of No Confidence in the current Executive Board, and demanding a forensic audit. Something is rotten in Monmouth County, New Jersey.

 

I'd certainly want a detailed line audit of FOS Family and FOS business receipts, as well as Popcorn receipts.

[Eamonn 61]

"Trails End Popcorn is the National Fundraiser for BSA."

No it isn't.

Budgeting is never easy.

Sadly to many people seem to think that once passed or accepted a budget is some sort of unmovable, unchangeable, non-negotiable thing.

As a business owner, I was constantly changing our budget.

Some (not all) of the problems that the council I'm in are due to bad budgeting.

Lees money coming in than expected and more going out!

The budget is put together by the Council Executive. I do question what real training they have to do this?

Most professional Scouters I know don't have a business or an accounting background. Very few know very much about grant writing.

I at times think the BSA is completely daffy.

A council here is PA was unhappy with their SE.

I had met him and worked with him on a few things. He is a super, really nice fellow. But he just wasn't bringing home the bacon. The money just wasn't coming in. Meeting were held with the Council President and the Council key 3. The writing was on the wall, he was warned and re-warned. When it looked like he was going to be fired he found another position within the BSA. Working in one of the big metro councils as the Finance Director!!

Eamonn.

[TheFourGuardians 10]

 

"So when I say Support your Council, I dont mean for you to get up and cheer for them. Hopefully its a call for you to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Go out there and be a part of your councils program. If it isnt up to your standards, then be a part of making it better. Participate in the Popcorn fundraiser, do summer camp in your home councils camp, invite FOS to your unit. "

 

 

Exactly...that's what everyone seems to be doing.

 

I'm not trying to say more can't be done, but it certainly seems strange to go from a everything is fine stance to this. I'd expect my council and not someone outside of it to be able to tell us what needs to be done. Either way, they've obviously failed at something.