Prairie_Scouter 10 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 OGE, Oooooh, we could make fun of the Nancy and George show all day, couldn't we? But, it's the holidays. My point with the 700 Club was just that even among those that call themselves "true believers", there are those who would judge those who aren't "in the club". Not many, and I suspect that those on the 700 Club are interested in their TV ratings as much as preaching the Word. So, here's a thought. There are those that would say that, for example, Merlyn could be the best person in the world, helping others, and leading an exceptional life, but when he gets to the pearly gates, he won't be let in because he didn't do those things because he believed in a "God", but merely because he thought it was the right thing to do. That's not my idea of a "just God". I like to believe that if, for example, Merlyn did those things in his life while professing to not believe in God, then when he passes on and arrives at the pearly gates, God opens the doors for him and yells "Surprise"! Now, THAT's my kind of God! Link to post Share on other sites
GernBlansten 10 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 The problem with the "if I live my life good, I'll go to heaven" argument is that contemporary protestant Christianity doesn't support that. Admission to heaven is by accepting Jesus only. Your deeds here on earth don't enter into it. Catholics on the other hand do require good deeds on earth and belief in Jesus to enter heaven. Not sure the criteria for Muslims. So yes, in the protestant Christian world, even Tookie Williams got entry past the pearly gates if he truly accepted Jesus before he was executed. Then again, if there are 10,000 religious sects/beliefs in the world, 9,999 of them are wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
Prairie_Scouter 10 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Could be, Gern, that ALL of those folks are going to be surprised when they show up at the gates to heaven and all the good people from the other 9,999 sects are there to greet them Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Wonderful news!!! The war ends in less than 48 hours! Link to post Share on other sites
gwd-scouter 11 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Yeah, at least until next year. Wishing everyone a joyous Holiday Season - whatever your reason! Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 The problem with the "if I live my life good, I'll go to heaven" argument is that contemporary protestant Christianity doesn't support that. Admission to heaven is by accepting Jesus only. Your deeds here on earth don't enter into it. Catholics on the other hand do require good deeds on earth and belief in Jesus to enter heaven. Not sure the criteria for Muslims. So yes, in the protestant Christian world, even Tookie Williams got entry past the pearly gates if he truly accepted Jesus before he was executed. While I don't know much about the Muslim faith I was raised Catholic & currently a Presbyterian I can tell you you really have no idea what you are talking about. I doubt if Tookie is in heaven. A death bed profession of faith doesn't undo all the years of sin. This is a common misconception. Works along with acceptance of Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior is the path to heaven. Not one or the other. Both together. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 A blessed Christmas to all Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Mark 3:28 Link to post Share on other sites
GernBlansten 10 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Ed, I'm talking about the concept of redemption. If you beleive in redemption, which all protestants should, and if Tookie accepted Jesus, he gets in. Now I'm not saying that he won't be sent to the back of the buffet line when he gets there. As a Catholic, you were also instructed that your deeds here on earth determined your time in purgatory and good deeds lessened the time, bad deeds lengthened it. In the Catholic faith, Tookie is doing a sentence (rather long one I would assume) in purgatory. But in the protestant faith, if he truly accepted Jesus, he could be nowhere else but heaven. Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster7 11 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 John 6:27-29 (New International Version) "Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval." Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster7 11 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Made Alive in Christ As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressionsit is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faithand this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:1-10 (NIV) Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster7 11 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 The fruit of ones faith is works. In regard to death bed conversions, I am not able to see inside a mans heart. God is. So, while its possible, I would not suggest it to anyone as a Get out of jail free card. Belief and repentance must be real its a matter of ones heart, not just an intellectual acceptance. God knows whether or not a man has truly accepted Him and His gift, Jesus work on the cross. Link to post Share on other sites
SemperParatus 1 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 ...from Rich Mullins... It's about as useless as a screen door on a submarine Faith without works baby It just ain't happenin' One is your left hand, one is your right It'll take two strong arms to hold on tight Some folks cut off their nose just to spite their face I think you need some works to show for your alleged faith Well there's a difference you know 'tween having faith and playing make believe One will make you grow the other one just make you sleep Talk about it But I really think you oughtta take a leap off of the ship Before you claim to walk on water Faith without works is like a song you can't sing It's about as useless as a screen door on a submarine Faith comes from God and every word that He breathes He lets you take it to your heart so you can give it hands and feet It's gotta be active if it's gonna be alive You gotta put it into practice Otherwise.... It's about as useless as a screen door on a submarine Faith without works, baby, it just ain't happenin' One is your right hand, one is your left It's your light, your guide, your life and your breath Faith without works is like a song you can't sing It's about as useless as a screen door on a submarine Faith without works, like a song you can't sing It's about as useless as a screen door on a submarine Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Gern, I don't even know where to start explaining what you fail to understand. I'll let the posts between this & your last post do the explaining. I will pray for you for understanding. You need it. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 A blessed Christmas to all Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Ed, Ummmmm...actually Rooster's posts between Gern and yours supports Gern. God's grace is a gift that is given and can not be earned by any action other than accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. The Bible is quite clear that works do not save us. We are saved solely by grace thru faith. Works are a byproduct of Salvation, not vice versa. Look it up. I think Gern understood. God desires all men to come to Him, but not all men will. Anyone can be saved, regardless of their past actions. That does not negate the punishment for their crimes in life, but it does get them to Heaven according to the Bible. As Rooster said, works are the fruit of faith. Link to post Share on other sites
GernBlansten 10 Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Actually, I had to re-read Rooster's posts twice to make sure I understood his meaning (Biblical passages do that to me). It is not too often that he and I agree on anything. I do find that most protestant Christians react like Ed did, so he is clearly not in a small minority. Link to post Share on other sites
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