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Comparisons.

 

Look at the difference in annual reports. Both are PR exercises but which provides clear and concise and detailed information?

 

 

BSA Annual Report BSA claimed 3.2 million in Scouting in 2003 1.5 million more "Learning for Life" Is this included? or separate?

 

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=mc

 

go to Facts and Figures and then go to annual report 2003

 

GSA Annual report GSA claimed 2.8 million in Scouting in 2003

 

http://www.girlscouts.org/who_we_are/facts/pdf/2003annual_report.pdf

 

"Scouting" counts not all that different with BSA 10% larger than GSA with official counts. Do both count the same way? Assume they do. I'm not sure how to account for Learning for Life - is that a separate corporation within BSA? or is it outside BSA? Is LFL overhead, dues, costs per youth the same as Scouting if it should be included?

 

 

Facts and figures from 2003 990 tax filings

 

In Part I

 

Total Assets end of year line 59

GSA $177 million vs GSA $648 million

 

Net Assets line 21

GSA $165 million vs BSA $528 million

 

In Part II

 

Membership fees

GSA $26 million vs BSA $109 million

 

Total functional expenses

GSA $81 million vs BSA $ 166 million

 

Salaries

GSA $28 million vs BSA $44 million

 

GSA CEO $324,417 + $25,495 benefits/def comp in NYC

BSA CSE $ 455,192 + $ 22,955 benefits/def comp in TX

 

 

Only in BSA,

Conferences, conventions and meetings $ 4.8 million

Same line for GSA $0

 

 

BSA's largest independent contractor was Hughes, Hubbard and Reed - "attorney" with $2,353,839 listed

 

GSA's largest independent contractor was GCI Washington - a software development firm working on "development of membership system" with $983,145 listed

 

 

You can't help but wonder: Why such differences?

 

Frankly, BSA seems pretty well off for an organization that's regularly asking for money.

 

Exactly what ARE all those assets? Camps? property? $439 million is listed under "Assets - securities with another $63 million in "Savings an temporary cash investments"

 

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Well, there IS such an "organization" as the "GSA" but it has nothing to do with Girl Scouts. As any student of U.S. government (or anyone who has gone into a federal office building and read the logo on the floor mats) can tell you, "GSA" stands for General Services Administration. It is a very large federal agency and among other things, it operates almost all non-military federal facilities.

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BTW Gern, girls camp in tents too.

 

Actually, many councils own their own tents which they let individual Troops borrow so that the Troop does not have to purchase any. Some Troops purchase Troop tents, other Troops use the members personal equipment.

 

Comparing GSUSA & BSA is never a good idea because of the different ways the two organizations are set up.

 

Jkhny - I'm really not sure what point(s) you are trying to make by your comparisons.

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Why is BSA so much more expensive to run?

 

Where IS the money going? (it's not tents)

 

And if you really looked at the annual reports, why is Boy Scout's report so "unclear" and "imprecise" with numbers - while Girl Scouts so VERY clear and detailed.

 

Boy Scouts is OUR orgnization. We should be a bit interested in finances. And while it's

 

 

 

having a ton of cash means little if you keep losing membership - and just why is Boy Scouts collecting 4X the fees Girl Scouts is?

 

 

 

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I question the membership of the Girls scouts. My wife is a GSUSA leader I am a Cub Scout leader. From my personal experience there seems to be twice the number of cubs as there are cub-age girl scouts. And I think the trend lines diverage as the age of the scout increases. I would expect the BSA/GSUSA to be closer to 4/1.

 

On money raising BSA Vs GSUSA. The GSUSA has huge money contributor in the cookie sales. Our popcorn sales can't even come close. Thus BSA dues must be higher to compensate.

 

 

 

 

 

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"On money raising BSA Vs GSUSA. The GSUSA has huge money contributor in the cookie sales. Our popcorn sales can't even come close. Thus BSA dues must be higher to compensate. "

 

AFAIK, Girl Scout cookie sales fund National, Councils, and units. Boy Scout popcorn sales only goes to councils and units. Nothing goes to BSA National.

 

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Without comment on the intent of the thread, I will add that the IRS 990 form you're referencing does not really include all of BSA. (I have no idea how many corporate identities comprise GSUSA.)

 

BSA councils are all independent corporations, and their assets and P&L are probably not reflected in the above. More significantly, though, is the fact that at a national level BSA has multiple entities, making it difficult to get a true picture of the entire organizations business practices. At least a few years ago, I know there were separate tax returns filed for Supply Division (as I recall that was a bit more than $100 million in additional revenue), the Publishing group (Boys Life and Scouting) had separate tax returns (and were separate corporations), and without searching my notes I believe there was another corporate entity that held the BSA Employee retirement trust funds (which was making so much "profit" because of how well the market was performing that the IRS was placing it's non-profit status in question, and that was dealt with by offering early retirement packages a few years ago).

 

Additionally, the Chief Scout Executive received a paycheck for that role, and additional paychecks for his editorial roles in the Publishing Group, etc.

 

It would be very interesting to understand the true balance sheet and P&L for the entire national organization, and how that might compare to the collective financial position of the independent council corporations. My sense is the numbers outlined above are a fraction of the total picture.

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