Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
berkshirescouter

What do you think of this? Warning: We Discriminate

Recommended Posts

Maybe I live in an isolated world, as has been alleged by some, but can adults old enough to be the parent of a a Tiger claim they didnt know about the gay and God thing? Maybe since I am in the BSA I cant conceive of anyone not knowing about the Gay and God policies, what is your experience?

 

BTW I would sign it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would sign it also. My thought was could you see the list every group would need. The Girl scouts discriminate against boys etc. The law would be a burden to everyone.

 

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My comment is that I think the writers of the article were a bit too "clever" for their own good. Their so-called disclosure statement says that the BSA "retains the right" to discriminate, which is nothing more than a statement of what the law is after the 5-4 decision of the U.S. Supreme Court in the Dale case. It doesn't even match what they talk about in the rest of the article, specifically they say the disclosure statement reveals the organization's policy. It really doesn't. The "policy" is to discriminate on the basis of avowed sexual orientation, not merely to "retain the right" to discriminate. Perhaps it is less of a distinction than I am making out of it, but that is my professional training, to attach a significance to every word of something. (Though I notice that this article was written by 2 law professors, which explains a lot. Except for the ones who spend their "free time" in court, generally law professors have their heads in the clouds, and often the clouds aren't even on this planet.)

 

As for whether I would sign the statement, I suppose I could sign it as written in the article, since it doesn't actually mean anything. If it instead said "I acknowledge that it is the policy of the BSA to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation" (which is what the professors would have written if they were being consistent with the rest of their article), well, what would I do then. I would probably conclude that I could no longer be NJCubScouter, or NJScouter for that matter. (But don't you all fall all over yourselves to hold the door open for me, I don't think the BSA will be putting that on the application anytime soon.)

 

As for OGE's point about people not knowing about the policy... again those statements by the professors are evidence that they are not exactly on the same planet as the rest of us. I think generally people do know that the BSA has an anti-gay policy, though there is a great deal of misunderstanding, even WITHIN the organization, about exactly what that policy is and what the rationale for it is. In fact, those misunderstandings within the organization are demonstrated on a regular basis in this very forum, including at least one thread that is active right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I'd agree with NJ on this one. I admit that I skirt around the edges of a policy I don't agree with so that my sons can take advantage of what is otherwise an excellent program. "Don't ask, don't tell" works for me right now for that reason. If BSA was to make a more stark statement such as NJ suggests, I'd be in a more difficult position, and I suppose, would have to become just "Prairie". As NJ said also, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I noticed the same thing when I read through it. Thanks, NJ, for the detail. I'd sign it but that would be meaningless since my children are too old for scouts anymore. It must have been added recently as I haven't noticed it (another person handles forms for the troop).

But I guess the point is that if this is widespread knowledge, fewer families will put their sons into scouts. I know this to be true locally but it isn't because of the form (rather, an obnoxious DE who shot his mouth off a while back). As NJ says, anyone who doesn't know about this already probably doesn't have much of an involvement in youth or scouting. Or else they're from Tralfamador.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This article is a piece of self-indulgent fluff by a couple of people who want pats on the back for being so PC their @#$%^ doesn't stink. It forgot to include the statement that BSA, like any other private association, has the right to discriminate against anyone who does not meet its membership requirements.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would sign it. I understand the BSA discriminates. I may not agree with every policy the organization has but like others recognize that overall, the BSA provides a very good program benificial to my son.

 

Now if the statement implied that I had to agree with the policy to be a member, I would have to rethink it. Don't think that's going to happen soon either. It would cut the potential membship pool significantly.

 

I can only think of one organization lately that requires signed loyalty statements to participate in it's events. There are others I'm sure but I can only think of one for now.

 

SA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the BSA wanted me to stand in a pile of cow poop and whistle Dixie, I suppose I would but they would then have to call me Bear.

 

A rule is like a knot used to secure gear on your pack. A good one generally holds the load all day long. A bad knot comes undone and things begin hitting the ground. I also believe that good rules don't change but the interpretation of them may take on new perspectives over the years. A bad rule will also remain because someone always think they have a better idea.

 

FB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's very sad to think that BSA would have to come with a warning label, like a can of toxic bug spray.

 

I know I'm in the minority on this, but I firmly believe that Scouting should be open to *ALL* kids. Sexuality is completely irrelevant to Scouting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

> Maybe I live in an isolated world, as has been alleged by some, but can

> adults old enough to be the parent of a a Tiger claim they didn't know

> about the gay and God thing? Maybe since I am in the BSA I cant

> conceive of anyone not knowing about the Gay and God policies, what

> is your experience?

 

During his Tenderfoot Scoutmaster Conference, I asked one of my 11 year-old Scouts to explain the meaning of the Scout Oath. When we got to "Duty to God," he told me he didn't have one because he was an atheist . When I asked him what that meant, he shrugged and replied, matter-of-factly, "God is fake." I raised my eyebrows and he patiently explained, "You know, fake like Santa Claus!"

 

I talked to his parents about it, and it turned out that his mom was an atheist, and he was just quoting her views on the subject. Believe it or not, some people simply do not follow the trials and tribulations of the Boy Scouts in the media, or have any idea of what "ACLU" stands for.

 

This was a working-class family, and they really had NO clue that children can get kicked out of the BSA for not believing in God. Maybe most young atheists come from more literate families where the parents are aware that personal beliefs have political consequences. For this family it was just commonsense, and not some issue that needed to be debated.

 

It is a bit like signing up for Rabbit Farming Merit Badge, only to find out that you have to believe in the Easter Bunny. For us it may be obvious, but for others, not so much :-/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ALL organizations should have to have this warning label in this case. Every organization discriminates in some way. I would bet that the ACLU would not have Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell as members. Atheists cannot join my church. The Democrat Party would not let George W. Bush join them.

 

We all discriminate in some way. I like Chevrolet vehicles. I have a friend who really has a separate area at his home for folks who drive anything other than a Dodge. That is discrimination. BTW, his son refuses to allow a Dodge to park in his driveway.

 

I believe that discussions of sexual orientation have no place in Scouts. If a leader has to discuss sexual orientation with a Scout, there is a problem that needs to be reported under Youth Protection.

 

Would I sign the statement? In blood.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×