What do you think of this? Warning: We Discriminate

[madkins007 10]

Before we discriminate, we need to carefully ask ourselves WHY we are discriminating.

 

The BSA used to discriminate against blacks because we thought they were lesser beings, or would contaminate us in some way. We used to discriminate against women Scout leaders because we thought that only men could lead boys.

 

 

 

 

WHY discriminate against atheists? We really do not push spirituality. We ALL KNOW that MANY Scouts and leaders are religiously neutral- saying the right things with absolutely no real belief in any god behind it... and we are perfectly OK with that. The BSA pays does really think that religious beliefs are important... but does not require them in any way UNLESS you use the 'A' word. We all know Socut leaders who drink, swear, and generally act contrary to their professed beliefs, yet for some reason, the BSA prefers them to straightforward atheists? I cannot for the life of me understand why.

 

 

 

 

Why discriminate against gays? The biggest reason is plain fear- fear of pediophiles, fear of the change in support from the biggest church supporters, fear of people different from you. Yet, we supposedly have this Youth Protection Program in place... so what is the problem? Why can't we just judge people based on their behaviors and actions?

 

Quite honestly- I don't want my Scouts knowing the sexual preferences of ANY of my adults! I am not a big supporter of Public Displays of Affection in front of the Scouts, even from married couples.

 

If we have solid youth protection in place, and I cannot tell in any way that you are gay, what is the problem?

 

 

 

 

 

We discriminate against girls because we feel that the GS-USA offers a solid program and that boys need a space of their own. The people we are 'discriminating' against here are still being given equal opportunities to do most of what the Boy Scouts do.

 

By discriminating against atheists and gays, we are keeping youth who may just be temporarily confused out of a program that offers them a lot of unique opportunities, and leaders who can offer us OTHER skills and strengths we can use to the benefit of all.

 

 

[evmori 11]

Why discriminate against atheists? Duty to God comes to mind. How can a person do duty to God if they don't believe He exists?

 

Please don't include me in the religious neutral camp. I am a Christian and the Scouts in my Troop know that. Not because I beat them over the head with it (because I don't) but because of the way I act.

 

Sure there are many Scouter's that are religious neutral but I would bet they all believe in God.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[packsaddle 753]

evmori, Just curious. What about the way you act in front of the boys sets you apart from, say, Jews or Unitarians? Or for that matter Moslems and Buddhists?

[evmori 11]

packsaddle,

Not sure. Don't even want to speculate because I haven't been around those denominations & religions you listed in a Scouting setting.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[madkins007 10]

(evmori) "but I would bet they all believe in God"

 

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

 

Matt 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

 

We both know that 'believing' in God means many things. Do they, as the Amplified Bible puts it, 'rely on, cling to, trust in' God... in any form?

[evmori 11]

We both know that 'believing' in God means many things. Do they, as the Amplified Bible puts it, 'rely on, cling to, trust in' God... in any form?

 

I would hope so, but I don't know.

 

The BSA doesn't require us to "rely on, cling to, trust in, etc" God. It requires us to believe in God. Nothing more. I, as a Christian, would hope this belief in God would develop into a trust in God, a reliance on God, a clinging to God but that is over and above the requirement.

If a Scout came to me and wanted to learn more about God, I would be happy to teach him.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Trevorum 24]

Ed said, "If a Scout came to me and wanted to learn more about God, I would be happy to teach him." (emphasis added)

 

Absolutely, that's the way it should work. Same here (although my views of god are very different from yours). Neither of us should seek to impose our beliefs on anyone, but making information available about religious beliefs is a good thing.

 

[packsaddle 753]

evmori, The part about one of your recent posts that caused me to ask the question was, (I quote you out of context here) "I am a Christian and the Scouts in my Troop know that. Not because I beat them over the head with it (because I don't) but because of the way I act."

 

From your statement we know 1) you don't beat children, and 2) something about the way you act causes them to know that you are Christian and, presumably, not something else.

In other words, the way you "act" causes them to know 'something' about you that they couldn't otherwise know. And that 'something' is that you are a Christian.

Logically this means that to be distinguished as a Christian, that designation must be in comparison to some other state (non-Christian) hence my previous question regarding the way that you "act".

 

Your response was, "Not sure. Don't even want to speculate because I haven't been around those denominations & religions you listed in a Scouting setting." (Here I add that they were: Jews, Unitarians, Buddhists, and Moslems)

 

You seemed certain of yourself when you wrote the original post. I wasn't asking for speculation, but rather what you meant by "...the way I act." Think of it this way, perhaps I would like to "act" Christian. Help me out. Tell me how to "act" Christian. Tell me what "acts" are uniquely Christian so that I will be able to recognize you out of the Pittsburg population.

 

I'm confused as to why you would feel the need to speculate about something of which you were so certain before. It is, as you claim, the way that YOU act. You must know what you're doing.

 

Then I have to ask, have you been around ANY non-Christians in a scouting setting? I would have thought that scouting in the Pittsburg area was more diverse than that.

 

This logical problem arises because if you are in a troop with homogeneous boys and faiths, and all of you share the same faith...how could you possibly distinguish yourself as a Christian? You ALL must be Christians and the boys would know that about you simply because you are there.

Please explain.

[evmori 11]

First off, Pittsburgh is spelled with a h.

 

As to the way I act - let's see- I'm honest, hard working, don't have the "If no one get hurt it's OK" attitude, care about my fellow man, say prayers at the beginning & end of each day. There's probably more. That help?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[packsaddle 753]

That would be a big OOPS on the spelling. Sorry to all you persons out there that think it's a 'gum band' rather than a 'rubber band' (just a little PittsburgH trivia there )

 

The problem is, I know plenty of people who act in an identical manner but who are not Christians. If that is the behavior of which you are thinking, you're in the same crowd as at least some Unitarians and Jews. I'm not sure about the prayer habits of the others. And you don't mean to imply that people of other faiths are NOT "honest, hard working" do you? And that they HAVE "the 'If no one get hurt it's OK' attitude", and DON'T "care about my fellow man." You don't mean to imply those bad things about other faiths do you?

That just leaves the prayer thing, do the boys see you praying at the beginning and end of each day? OK, now how do you know (since you haven't been around those denominations & religions I listed in a Scouting setting) that members of the other faiths DON'T have similar practices?

[evmori 11]

An ats gum banz, yinz

 

That would be a no to all the "do you" questions. And yes they have seen me praying. They know I pray. They know I don't tolerate taking the Lord's name in vain. They know I don't tolerate vulgarity.

 

Where ya going with this, pack?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[packsaddle 753]

I guess I'm pushing too hard. When you stated that the boys knew you were Christian because of the way you act, I wondered how that could be. How could you distinguish yourself as a Christian through actions, and how would they know (having observed those actions) that it meant you are Christian (as opposed to, say, Jewish)? My underlying assumption, if that's what you're wondering, is that you (and I) are not all that different from most other people regardless of faith. But it seemed, from your post, that you had adopted actions that set you apart specifically as a Christian and I was trying to clarify.

I may have simply read too much into your words. Or am I wrong?

And thanks for the correct pronunciation

 

Edited part: Perhaps 'Jewish' is not the best alternative - there would be that candelabra thing - or was that Liberace? (This message has been edited by packsaddle)