ACLU to BSA: Heads We Win - Tails You Lose

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Using your reasoning, it would be fine if a public school had a football team that didn't allow Jews; after all, no one is FORCED to join, right?

 

And I would agree with your antisemitic analogy, but only if antisemitism is analgous to the prejudice displayed against atheists in this forum. Many of you seem to think it would be just fine if public schools had any number of programs that excluded atheists - yet how many of you would scream "discrimination" if a public school owned & operated a youth group that only allowed atheists?

[jr56 92]

If joining the group for only atheists was optional, I would say great, it would appear that there was a demand for that kind of club if the school was taking the time to sponsor it.

[gavvin 11]

Merlyn: I hope that you don't think that everyone in these forums is anti-atheist. I have seen a number of people who have posted a disagreement with the current policies put forth by National in reference to atheists and homosexuals.

 

I happen to think that your analogy is a good one, but it has to be a program that kids WANT to be a part of. If schools limited access to sports or band or theater to atheists, yes, people would be upset. Scouting is the premier youth organization in the country (in my opinion). It is no wonder that kids of all religious preferences/sexual preferences/sexes want to be a part of it. However, it could be argued that it achieved this exalted status precisely BECAUSE it excludes certain people. Not necessarily MY view, but one that is certainly held by some of the people in these forums.

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Well, here in the real world, public schools can't discriminate like that, and not only do they NOT sponsor atheist-only groups, sometimes they unlawfully refuse permission for students to form their own such group (even though e.g. student Christian groups are routinely OK'd) and they have to be sued in order to treat atheists equally.

[jr56 92]

Actually, most schools around this country will allow minority interest groups to form, they refuse to allow standard Christian groups for fear of lawsuits from special interest groups like the ACLU.

[evmori 11]

A public school chartering a BSA unit is not discrimination! That is the biggest stretch of the truth I have ever heard! Not chartering a BSA unit would be discrimination!

 

Those who don't believe in a god can't join the school chartered BSA. Those who can't play an instrument can't join the school band. What's the difference?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

jr56 writes:

Actually, most schools around this country will allow minority interest groups to form, they refuse to allow standard Christian groups for fear of lawsuits from special interest groups like the ACLU.

 

"Most"? Yeah, right...

 

And the ACLU would sue the school for REFUSING to allow students to form such a group, assuming the school allows other non-curriculum groups; they go into a lot of detail over the Lamb's Chapel decision:

http://www.aclu.org/ReligiousLiberty/ReligiousLiberty.cfm?ID=9881&c=29

 

I would say the main reason these sorts of things happen are due to so many people having absolutely no idea what religious freedom really means. Yes, that includes you, Ed.

 

[evmori 11]

Would the ACLU sue a school because a kid wasn't allowed to join the band because he couldn't play an instrument? If not, why not?

 

Religious freedom - I can worship any god I want without the government stopping me. Yeah I understand. How is a public school chartering a BSA unit infringing upon religious freedom? Answer the question, Merlyn. Don't dance around it with an answer like "I would say the main reason these sorts of things happen are due to so many people having absolutely no idea what religious freedom really means. Yes, that includes you, Ed" because that isn't an answer.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Ed, I've explained it to you before, and you are literally too stupid to understand the answer.

[evmori 11]

Good answer Merlyn! Exactly what I expect from you. Stooping to name calling & side stepping the entire question! Good evasive tactic!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[tortdog 10]

Merlyn, whether you like it or not there is already court precedent that the BSA can distribute its literature at public schools. The court found that the BSA literature is not promoting religion.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

I KNOW that BOy Scouts can distribute flyers on the same basis as any other outside group (including churches, by the way); I've never said otherwise.

 

What they're losing is special access, like in-person recruiting talks during school hours.(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Tortdog says:

 

The court found that the BSA literature is not promoting religion.

 

You have a cite on that case, counselor? I'd like to read it.

 

[tortdog 10]

Absolutely. I first referenced the case here:

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=94655&p=8

 

A summary of the case is here:

 

http://www.nsba.org/site/doc_cosa.asp?TRACKID=&VID=50&CID=468&DID=35571

 

Merlyn. You will be happy to know that the court found that the BSA is STILL allowed into the classroom to explain the Boy Scout program and distribute the literature. So life moves forward and everyone is at peace.

[cajuncody 10]

Just to stir the pot . . .

You will all be happy to know that a student can join the band without knowing how to play an instrument. After all, that is what they teach. When I joined many years ago I couldn't even read music. They taught me to read and play music and also how to stand outside at attention in a downpour of rain. Ah, the good old days . . .

Maybe that is the problem. The ACLU might just be afraid that if we get the boys interested that they would "learn" about God and would then be allowed to join.

Just stirring the pot.

Kristi

Kristi