SemperParatus 1 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Excuse my complete ignorance on all the 'religions' of the world, but what is the Pagan interpretation of God? Also, what about devil-worshippers? Presumably they worship a supreme power and may view satan as their 'God'. Do they fit into the BSA guidelines? Just curious. I am not trying to start an argument here. TGIF everybody! Link to post Share on other sites
Trevorum 24 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 "Some people confuse Wicca with Satanism, but Wiccans do not worship the devil - they do not even believe in such a being. Wiccans are considered to be pagans because some of them worship several nature gods instead of a single supreme god. Most Wiccans believe that a creative force exists in the universe, which is sometimes called "The All". Most regard the Goddess and the God as representing the female and male aspects of the All, which envelop all the world." http://www.inquiry.net/ideals/faiths/wicca.htm Link to post Share on other sites
SemperParatus 1 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 So, what about satanists - are they "BSA eligible" as long as they call satan their god? I'd think I might even prefer mhagar over a satanist. Link to post Share on other sites
Trevorum 24 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Also of interest from the same website: "Zoroastrianism was founded by Zarathushtra (Zoroaster in Greek). Zarathushtra lived in Persia (modern Iran) sometime between 1,500 and 1,000 BCE. He preached monotheism at a time when polytheistic religions prevailed... Zoroastrians believe in a single supreme god. Zoroastrians were the first monotheistic religion to develop the idea of a savior, born of a virgin, who will raise the dead and judge everyone in a final judgment... A basic belief is the cosmic dualism between all powerful [God] and an evil spirit of violence and death... This cosmic conflict requires humans to choose which to follow. At the end of time, Evil will be completely destroyed and Goodness will be in all." Link to post Share on other sites
Trevorum 24 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I strongly suspect that BSA membership includes Satanists. You may not agree with their theology, but it meets the criteria, even more so than does Buddhism. However, their theology is so misunderstood and hated by the majority that they are almost certainly "in the closet". Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Trevorum, I would add that although Christians have laid claim to many well-known celebrations and rituals, many if not most of these have their origins in others (even Pagan) religions. I also add that I continue to marvel at how religion tends to divide us while science serves to unite. Link to post Share on other sites
Trevorum 24 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Excellent point, Pack. We will certainly all agree with Newton that F = m*a Link to post Share on other sites
SemperParatus 1 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Thank you for mentioning Newton...an intensely devout Christian man. "This most beautiful system [The Universe] could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Newton(This message has been edited by SemperParatus) Link to post Share on other sites
Trevorum 24 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Newton was a smart guy! Among a lot of other stuff, he knew that there is no inherent conflict between science and religion. He studied science so to better understand the glory. Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I've managed to remain silent for seven pages, but now I feel the desire to weigh in and offer an opion. I think a Satanist would be excluded if discovered. Satanism is incompatible, IMHO with the values Scouting teaches. A satanist would not be willing to do duty to God. A satanist does his duty to Satan. It's an interesting intellectual argument, but I don't think anyone would seriously disagree that Satanism is against the core beliefs of the BSA. Slightly different question -- I have a problem with the term "Religious Discrimination" that's getting tossed about. Atheism means they do believe there is and Deity to believe in. It may be a strong belief, but it is not a religion. The BSA has a Declaration of Religious Principle. It has been quoted here enough that I won't bother to re-iterate it. Saying that the BSA has a policy of Religious Discrimination because atheists aren't allowed as members is like saying that states have a "Vehicular discrimination" against people who don't have cars since those people without cars can't ride their bicycles on the interstate! Dang! Those interstates are built and maintained with government funds. The government of every state and the feds are discriminating against pedestrians and cyclists! NOW we have something to be upset about! Or do we? Unc. Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 I use the term "religious discrimination" because, legally, that's what it is. If you want a more specific term, it's discrimination based on creed - you have to hold the creed that at least one god exists. If a public school runs a school club that requires theism, that's religious discrimination. A better example than your nonsensical "vehicular discrimination" would be discrimination on the basis of marital status - that includes discriminating against people for being married OR for being single. Link to post Share on other sites
Trevorum 24 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Well, I'm not going to be a "Devil's Advocate"! but fairly objective information about Satanism can be found at http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm It turns out that "They do not worship a living deity. Major emphasis is placed on the power and authority of the individual Satanist, rather than on a god or goddess. ... They believe that "no redeemer liveth" - that each person is their own redeemer, fully responsible for the direction of their own life... Satanism respects and exalts life. Children and animals are the purest expressions of that life force, and as such are held sacred and precious . Make of that what you will. Link to post Share on other sites
Zahnada 11 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 I for one, support BSA's right and decision in this membership policy, but something in this conversation has been troubling me. Unc said, "I have a problem with the term "Religious Discrimination" that's getting tossed about. Atheism means they do believe there is and Deity to believe in. It may be a strong belief, but it is not a religion." From what I gather, some atheists and theists worry about the slippery slope of this argument. Personally, I feel the BSA does practice religious discrimination because atheism only exists in response to theism. It is a view of religion. Now, I also feel BSA is completely justified to practice this form of discrimination just as they are justified to practice pedophile discrimination (I purely used both terms for example, not for association). The danger comes from saying, "It's not religious discrimination to not welcome an atheist because they have no religion." Then exactly what kind of discrimination is it? It's akin to saying, "Atheists just don't count on our moral spectrum so they can't be discriminated against." I think everyone can see where this rationale can lead (I won't draw a Holocaust analogy). Now, don't get me wrong. I don't think anyone in this forum goes out and throws rocks at the atheist neighbor. But atheists are human too and I feel some of these arguments a dehumanizing. I certainly hope these feelings aren't being passed to the boys whom we teach by example. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 This might be a little off track but has anyone noticed Merlyn only contributes when there is "discrimination" involved? If he truly cared about the BSA he would contribute to other parts of the forums. It seems Merlyn feels it is his sole responsibility to remind us that he doesn't like the BSA because he feels the BSA discriminates! When actually all the BSA is doing is what the Supreme Court declared they could do. Now Merlyn stands behind those rulings the Supreme Court handed down when they support his personal agenda. He's just ticked off the Supreme Court didn't agree with him this time. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Hey Ed, the BSA discriminates; the supreme court didn't say the BSA didn't discriminate, they said the BSA's discrimination was legally protected. That's why some BSA's are trying to weasel-word United Way nondiscrimination requirements by stating they don't "unlawfully" discriminate, instead of simply stating that they don't discriminate. And I've explained to you before that I'm not a fan of the BSA, I'm an advocate for atheists' rights, but apparently you are incapable of learning that, too. Link to post Share on other sites
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