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eisely

Here we go again...

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Merlyn,

 

Usually I enjoy your verbal tilting at windmills, but I think in this case you have gone over the edge. I don't know what happened to you in your life that has turned you into such an angry man, especially against the BSA and God.

 

I suggest you consider some serious counseling to help you get at the root of these anger issues. Your constant attacks at everyone in here sounds like a serious cry for help. Peace to you.

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You know, that makes as much sense as someone telling you that you're really mad at Zeus. Telling an atheist that he's "mad at god" just shows that you don't respect atheists.

 

And is it really hard to figure out why I'm angry with a dishonest organization that tries (and often succeeds) in getting government agencies to run BSA units that exclude atheists? If the BSA excluded Jews, would you criticize a Jew who railed against the BSA and considered them dishonest for having public schools run their "no Jews allowed" groups?

 

I've noticed nobody has tried to refute the specific statements I've made about the Cambridge-Isanti High School; does anyone think it was legal for the CIHS to sponsor a Venture Crew? Does anyone think the national BSA would allow atheist and gay CIHS students to join this Crew? Does anyone think the BSA has been honest in this case? Why'd they issue a Venturing Crew charter to a public school, anyway - does the BSA think public schools in Minnesota can ignore the law on the BSA's behalf?

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evmori - My post was cut off (and I didn't realize it until just now), so there's no complete explanation, But NO, I wasn't really kidding - just trying to make a point. The forum is an open campfire to discuss Scouting. Why would it be acceptable to tell someone they don't belong?

 

jd

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johndaigler,

Why would it be acceptable to tell someone they don't belong? Because they don't meet the membership requirements!

 

How is telling someone they don't belong hazing?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

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Ed -

 

I didn't realize there were Membership Requirements for this Forum.

 

When someone joins a conversation here, they volunteer to belong to the group. When another poster makes them feel like they're not part of the group (and shouldn't be), it seems that "Hazing" is a fairly apt description. When we make each other feel judged and "judged wanting" and use that moment to try to make ourselves feel better and a stronger (more righteous) member of the "group", then "Hazing" seems to fit.

 

I'm not talking about disagreeing. I'm not even talking about getting angry and writing things we ought to later regret. I'm talking about saying, "This is my club and you are NOT wanted." If not "Hazing" what would yuu call it?? And, in truth, I'm indifferent to what you want to call it. If you don't like my choice of words, that's fine. My point is I don't think we should do it. We certainly wouldn't tolerate it if peer Scouts treated each other that way.

 

jd(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

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johndaigler,

I'm not real sure what your point is??????? Hazing???? Telling someone to go away is hazing??????

 

I misread you other question. There are no membership

requirements here other than those imposed by the site owners.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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Ed, don't get caught up in the vocabulary. I used "Hazing" because it's a common enough word around here with a negative enough connotation. . . I thought my explanation earlier was fairly clear. You DO get my point about treating each other fairly, don't you?? Look, you disagree with someone's words, argue with better words.

 

Telling them to "Go Away" isn't exactly stellar debate technique!! ;)

 

You don't win, you don't convince them you're right -- All you do is show them you've run out

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John and Ed's little exchange just reminded me of a story that, I think, applies to the general topic of excluding persons with whom we disagree. It is the story of the three visitors who came to Sodom, whom Lot met at the gate. Perhaps we should not be so quick to judge.

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Well, I suggested that Merlyn should go away (or be asked to leave) if he persisted in namecalling. I don't like that kind of behavior, and I'm not afraid to say so. I would never ask him to leave just based on his point of view. However, I have said before that I think he's wasting his time here. Finding one or two examples of the behavior he objects to across the many thousands of Scout units just isn't very persuasive--and he's talking here to people who aren't that receptive to his message in the first place.

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"I have said before that I think he's wasting his time here. Finding one or two examples of the behavior he objects to across the many thousands of Scout units just isn't very persuasive--and he's talking here to people who aren't that receptive to his message in the first place."

 

Hi Hunt,

 

John 10:10 tells us, "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full."

 

Persuasion isn't always the intent. Often times fear, anxiety, frustration, anger, etc... are the intent.

 

Regardless, I'll continue to pray that Merlyn will find the truth with the peace and joy that accompany it. I hope that others will join me in this.

 

Don't allow ANYONE to steal your peace and joy.

 

Additionally, Merlyn asks if we would be offended by a group sponsored by a public school, that didn't allow Jews into it. As long as a group of Jewish students have the ability to have a group that excludes Christians, if they so desire, why would it matter to me at all.

 

We won't have TRUE religious freedom until all groups are allowed to practice their faith anytime and anywhere.(This message has been edited by silver-shark)(This message has been edited by silver-shark)

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silver-shark writes:

Additionally, Merlyn asks if we would be offended by a group sponsored by a public school, that didn't allow Jews into it. As long as a group of Jewish students have the ability to have a group that excludes Christians, if they so desire, why would it matter to me at all.

 

But they don't; I'm not talking about a situation where students can create their own groups, I'm talking about a situation where the school itself is running a youth group.

 

Look at the Cambridge-Isanti program - if you wanted to join the school's theatre group, that meant joining the Venture Crew - therefor, no gays or atheists allowed in the school's theatre group. Same for their pottery class, book club, dance club, water polo, etc. All of these closed to gays and atheists because they couldn't join the school's Venture Crew, because all of these were done under their Venturing program.

 

We won't have TRUE rreligious freedom until all groups are allowed to practice their faith anytime and anywhere.

 

And we also won't have true religious freedom until all public schools stop owning and operating Scout units that exclude their own students for not having the "right" religious views.

 

And Hunt, there are still thousands of public schools running Scout units; it's not "one or two examples", it's a significant fraction of the number of total Scout units, with hundreds of thousands of members.

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there are still thousands of public schools running Scout units

This is a good thing! And by denying these schools the ability to run Scout units would be discrimination.

 

At least someone is teaching them good values!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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No Ed, but you can't understand. It isn't discrimination to tell public schools that they can't discriminate, and public schools can't teach that believing in gods is preferable to not believing in gods.

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"Who are you?" asks a mortally wounded Richard Boone. "Jacob McAndles", replies the Duke as he rescues his little grandson. "I thought you were dead?" moans Boone. "NOT HARDLY"

 

Hey Pack, just bought a three pack of dvd's at Wal-Mart. "The Sons of Katie Elder", "Big Jake", and "The Shootist". You mentioned it the other day, and bigger than Stuttgart, there it was.

 

A couple bags of Trails End popcorn, 5 of us and the weiner dog on the bed, and Big Jake. How can you beat that?

 

P

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