FScouter 24 Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Man and Woman are as different now as they have been since the beginning of time. And they're not different because backward thinking neanderthals have pushed men and women into different roles. We have different roles because that's simply the nature of the beast. Rooster, your analysis is perfect. Link to post Share on other sites
johndaigler 10 Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Super! FScouter, maybe YOU can help me!!!!! What's the difference?????? jd Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster7 11 Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 John, I know I'm thick-headed Why dont we just stop there since were finally in agreement! Were not living in a lab so I cannot scientifically demonstrate my assertions as being true. And since neither of us have the power to craw inside the head of the opposite sex, it appears this argument will continue for a long time. Still, without any insult or arrogance intended, I know Im right. Ive been living too long to deny the truths that are so plain for me to see. I can't explain these differences between the sexes any easier than I can explain love to someone who claims they've never been loved. And even if I could, you or someone else could always point to the exception as opposed to the rule. So let's do each other a favor and call a truce. Bottom line: The resolution of this debate is not going to bring about world peace. So, I bid you peace and voluntarily withdraw my participation from this thread.(This message has been edited by Rooster7) Link to post Share on other sites
FScouter 24 Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 1. A Man slays dragons to protect his wife and family. Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Well, er, back to the origional question: Can a pack be run with women leaders? Yes. Thanks for the opportunity to avoid the fray. Unc. Link to post Share on other sites
Laurie 10 Posted September 3, 2004 Author Share Posted September 3, 2004 Unc, thanks. I was just getting ready to try to bring us back to the original issue too which was: My question is this: how do you think the public views a unit with mostly women in leadership? Is this unique to us, or is it pretty common? I agree that men working with boys is not just good, but is also very important. My goal was to find out if so many women in leadership of one unit hurts the perception by the public of the unit. I know that we can and have delivered a strong program which now is simply in need of recruiting more youth--but the public doesn't know this, so they have no reason to be confident in us, male or female. It seems I felt more confident than I should have earlier in this thread, for in more recent posts, it seems that my concern was well founded after all. Since our CR/CC and UC both have expressed confidence in me repeatedly, I wonder if these 2 men could be asked to help with roundup and recruiting? Do you think that their public show of confidence in the unit would help those who might be unsure of women leading? (And though it's not ideal or recommended, the CR/CC is not able to attend most meetings, and has therefore asked me to set the agenda and keep the program going--not a problem at all, but if you're wondering why *I* ask this question, now you know )(This message has been edited by Laurie) Link to post Share on other sites
johndaigler 10 Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Rooster - Finally, on your last point, you're right! "Peace" between us is the best answer for now. jd Laurie, sorry for helping to take the thread so far astray. I'll stick by my original post, that: gender is less significant than qulaity of program. I think if you just keep demonstrating that, the boys will return in numbers to bring back your confidence!! Good Luck!! FScouter, Your mythical example doesn't work, unles Link to post Share on other sites
fotoscout 15 Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Hi Laurie, Do you have a situation with competing Packs where fellow Scouters are telling parents to stay away from your Pack because most of the leadership is female, while suggesting that people go to the other Pack because the leadership is male.? Link to post Share on other sites
Laurie 10 Posted September 3, 2004 Author Share Posted September 3, 2004 JD, no apology necessary. This kind of conversation shows various views of how people see women in leadership. foto, I won't elaborate, but it is not a unit nearby that is a problem to us but individuals who don't play nice, and we don't even consider them when recruiting. Maybe we should?? What I do know is that people in public who have seen me in uniform have made it clear that they just can't believe the BSA would do a crazy thing like let a woman lead. I figure that can hurt recruiting and that we can do something about it. Like have the CR/CC and UC and DE promote the unit. All are men, all are solidly supportive of the unit, but they are simply not known to those outside the unit. Link to post Share on other sites
scoutmom 10 Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Laurie, I have stayed out of this one, because frankly, I'm sick of the whole "women is Scouting should run fundraisers and bake brownies" attitude. It has been my experience that women in Leadership positions in CUB SCOUTING are not only more accepted, but, it seems to me, more expected. I was once told that the boys who are Cub Scout age "still need their Mommies and that's why there are more women in Cub Scouting." In BOY SCOUTING, however, there is an attitude that men are better suited to those adult leadership positions. I guess it really depends on the Troop and your Charter Org. But I'm not going to engage in that debate and longer, both here in this form and in the Troop my son is currently registered in. I have resigned my position with that Troop and am looking forward to a more peaceful life. Considering that you are perceiving a prejudice towards your Pack due to mostly female leadership, if you can get your CC/CR, UC and you DE to give you a show of support, that certainly won't hurt. Good Luck and keep up the good work. Scouting needs more PEOPLE like you, regardless of gender. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 33% of the participants, in the Wood Badge course I am currently serving on staff for, are female. I see no difference to this point in their ability to use the methods of scouting, and to achieve the aims and mission of Scouting, as in the men. BW Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 It looks like some of us will have to agree to disagree. As often happens when there is no clear answer. I hope that even with our differences of opinion, that we can agree that this is a great organization, which works best and does a better job of serving our youth members, when we all work as a team. Eamonn. Link to post Share on other sites
johndaigler 10 Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 I know johndaigler swore off this thread and he doesn't like bending rules (well, actually he's rather comfortable bending rules when it makes sense in the name of children, and other good causes . . .) or going back on his implied agreements, so I borrowed his keyboard . . . Laurie, Get the men to participate, but don't back completely out of the process. Sounds like the world around you needs to be reassured by involving the men, but those same people also need to see the men cooperating with you, accepting you as a team member, and respecting you and your contribution. Scoutmom, come back to us!!!!!! Don't let a few bad apples spoil the whole . . . "not"jd(This message has been edited by johndaigler) Link to post Share on other sites
scoutmom 10 Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 JD, Hey, those are my son's initials, too. I haven't gone far -- I still serve Scouting on the District level. I would never let the opinions of a few take me away from a program that I believe in and support. Once my son chooses a new Troop (yes, he is looking. and it was his decision, not mine) I will consider involvement at the unit level, but to be perfectly honest, I'm sort of enjoying, being "just a parent". I have a lot more time to devote to the training team and my Wood Badge Ticket. Link to post Share on other sites
timberscout 10 Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 First of all let me say good day to all. I have to step in here and say a few words. First of all I would say that reading though the tread, that I would encourage every adault (male and female) to support and talk about the unit as much as possible, and talk to the boys about doing the same, most new scouts join because of there friends. I served as a den leader in a pack in a rather small town. I was one of only two males in this unit (CM and myself), but this was the largest pack in the town. Last year the boys in my Webelos den crossed over to Boy Scouts and do to the fact that most of the boys were from sigle parent families (mothers) and the attitues they got form the leaders of the troop that they started in (Boy scouts is not a mommy organization), I was asked to start a new troop, and did. Myself as Scoutmaster,the Assistant Scoutmaster, and one committee member are the only males in the unit, and a mater of fact even on our outings, we almost always have at least one female leaders join in the fun. We all have the same goal to offer a quality program to the boys. we all have differnt points of view and interest that afford the boys more chances for growth. As for those that make rude comments, I would just say that you can not make every one happy, and that there are those out there that are just looking to get a reaction and that if they are saying this type of thing that chances are they would not support the scouting program (Oath, law etc.) no matter who the leaders are. Keep up the good work and remember to: keep it simple and keep it fun. Link to post Share on other sites
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