LauraMO 10 Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 In leadership training, it was explained to me that one of the purposes of timely filing a Local Tour Permit for our field trips is that if a driver has a wreck in their auto & if their son is wearing the Class A uniform, then BSA would cover the cost of damages / injuries. If this is the case, then are there any BSA Legal Eagles out there who can explain why the permit requires Public Liability Insurance info for each auto that is traveling on the field trip? If BSA is covering the accident, then why do they want to know my drivers' insurance policy limits? Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Unfortunately Laura you were given a mix of good information, bad information, and folklore. Boy Scout insurance for the most part (and there are some slight variations depending on the financial strength of your council) is a secondary accident insurance paid for either by your council or by the individual units based on the number of youth at the time of your charter renewal. By secondary insurance that means that the insurance held by the family of the injured scout is primary and the BSA insurance will pay the deductible and any charges that exceed the coverage of the family's insurance. In case the family has no insurance then the BSA insurance becomes the primary coverage. The BSA insurance is door step to door step, meaning that the youth member (or potential youth member in the case of a guest that is program eligible) is covered from the time they leave their home until the time they return. It doesn't matter what they are wearing. That is a myth that has hung around for decades. If you read the tour permits or get a copy of the insurance (available from your council office) you will find no such stipulation. It never has been a requirement. The reason you are asked for your auto policy information is to 1) make sure you are a valid licensed driver, 2) make sure you will not be trying to sue the BSA or charter organization for damage to your auto, and 3) To make sure you have the liability coverage required in your state to drive. 4) If the accident is your fault (or you violated the Guide to Safe Scouting regulations) your liability insurance would kick in before the family or BSA insurance did. Suggest to your District Training Chairman that the trainers stick to the information in the syllabus. Hope this helps, Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to post Share on other sites
LauraMO 10 Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 Thanks, Bob, for clearing this up. Link to post Share on other sites
Scoutmaster Ron 12 Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Another tks to Bob, However I found at my council office you can fax the tour permit in and when I called to make sure they had it and returned it to me with the stamp of approval it was like no big deal they had told me they would mail it to me however I would not have recieved it until after the event. Link to post Share on other sites
dancinfox 10 Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 I have faxed my tour permits to the council office for 3 years. They always fax them back to me the same day. If anyone is interested, I have made the new 2003 Local Tour Permit fillable in a PDF format. You can use Acrobat to fill it out, print it either 8 1/2 X 14 or 8 1/2 X 11 and mail or fax to your council. If interested in this file, e-mail me and I will attach and e-mail you back. Dancin Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2778 Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 This makes sense. I was told that the real purpose of the Tour permits is a check list. It gives the unit guidelines for making sure everything has been taken care of for a safe trip. Not having a permit does not disqualify the Scouting insurance. When I learned this, I developed more respect for the permit because I found it did help us to cross the "T"s and dot the "I"s. Can you verify this Bob? Barry Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Faiure to file a tour permit can have serious results. While it is true that the youth accident insurance is in force whether a tour permit is filed or not, the same cannot be said for the adult leader's liability umbrella. Without a tour permit you could find yourself personally liable without the financial protection of the BSA liability insurance. That would put your personal finances and assets at risk. Also, in the case of a National Tour Permit you could find yourself turned away at the door when you get to your destination. Most State and Federal parks and facilities know that without a tour permit you are not to be allowed admittance. It is always best to file the permit (remeber also that National Permits are sent by the local council to the regiopnal service center for approval so you need to allow alot more time for processing. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
dan 10 Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 dancinfox I only have adobe acrobat reader, the free one, I would not be able to edit this document would I? Link to post Share on other sites
dancinfox 10 Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Dan, That is correct. I have a full copy of Acrobat and can make PDF files fill-in. Everything on the Tour Permit that needs to be filled in, can be. I also have the Eagle Appliciation in a fill-in format if you would like it. In the Wood Badge Spirit Dancin Link to post Share on other sites
eisely 13 Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 To facilitate the tour permit process, our troop keeps current files on all vehicles that may be used and drivers that may drive. We are fortunate that we live fairly close to our council office. I routinely go by there and get tour permits approved on the spot. If there is sufficient time, I have mailed in tour permits with a self addressed postage paid return envelope. This makes it even easier for council staff to get the tour permit back to me. Faxing also works. It all depends on the competence and diligence of the people working in the council service center. Link to post Share on other sites
dancinfox 10 Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 To those to whom I e-mailed the attached files too. I just wondered what you thought of them. Dancin Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle69 46 Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 I appreciate your sending them to me. I wish I had the full Adobe package so I could fill the blasted things out with my PC instead of having to write it in. Of course I also wish that Troop Master could produce a document that was totally acceptable to the Scout Office then I wouldn't have a problem. Link to post Share on other sites
dancinfox 10 Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Eagle69, You don't need the full version of Acrobat to fill these forms in. If you have a free version of Acrobat, you can use it to fill in the spaces. I have made it a fill-in form. In Scouting, Dancin Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle69 46 Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 I'll be a son of a gun, you sure can. When you said it was a fill in version I assumed you had to have the full Adobe. This is now a very very useful form. Thank you for fixing it. The Council Office will appreciate too since they won't have to read my handwriting any more. Link to post Share on other sites
flyingember 10 Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 as far as uniforms go, this tends to be a troop rule that just goes down over the years. I've heard the required for insurance line at times and others not. I do think that requiring the scouts to wear a scouting shirt is the best policy. when you make a pitstop the group is easy to find and you get good advertisement. if your scouts are in scout shirts and act good, then you've helped publicise the program. many troops that aren't in scout uniform are in a troop shirt instead Link to post Share on other sites
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