WHEELER 10 Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 References to the word man in the l948 Handbook 1, You are in the company of men; 8, men; 18, group of men; 20, great men of history; 22, 2X men, man; 23, men; 24, he was outstanding as a strong, virile man; 25, two men; 34, great men of history; 35, Great men; 39, You and all men; 43, Those are the qualities that make great and successful men.; 47, woodsmen; 59, Woodsmen; 61, What a man your Scoutmaster is! 62, to be real men; 64, men; 103, The men; 104, both the boy and man leaders; 118, young men; 120, 2X men, men; 121, group of men to serve boys; 122, 5X statesman, men of toil, men, men, seamen; 192, mans interest; 193, 2X to man, man; 195, Army men; 196, to man; 219, man; 233, first white man; 235, 2X man, men; 241, 2X man, mankind; 253, 2X man, man; 305, man-sized job; 391, 2X men, man; 399, men; 411, boy or man; 417, 2X man, men; 422, men; 431, These men; 433, with a fine man; 434, 3X for young men, men, young men; 435, for young men; 436, young man; 438, 2X men, men; 444, waterman; 446, 3X his men, boys and men were eager for scouting, Men; 447, famous men. Man and its plural appears 64 times. References to the word man in the l998 Handbook 26, men; 46, men#; 47, how to live as a boy and as a man; 186, men*; 331, Man**; 334, men#; 336, men#; 338, young man; 360, man*; 376, manhood; 424, young men#; 425, men; 432, boys to become better men. * Quote from an Old Handbook. ** Title of a Book # Said in conjunction with and women. Man and its plural appears 13 times in the modern version. If one takes away the two quotes from old handbooks and the title it is reduced to 10 times. If one subtracts the instances and women, man appears by itself six times. It is never preceded with any adjective like famous, great, virile, or real. __________________________ References to Outdoorsman in the l948 Handbook for Boys. Pages 137, 138, 141, 142, 145, 296. There is no use of the word outdoorsman in the new Scout Handbook. The book has the word, trailsman on page 63 but it again is a quote from another book. If outdoorsman is added to total of the appearance of man in the 1948 Manual, the new total would be 70 references to man. Outdoorsman and woodsmen is never used but the gender neutral term hikers is in the modern Handbook. ___________________________ In the l948 Handbook the word Gentleman is used twice. 33, an officer and a gentleman; 409, clean-living, quiet-spoken gentleman. In the modern Handbook, it appears once on page 49. _____________________________ In the 1948 Handbook: mankind, page 241; Knights, 4X pages 42,118-9; Heroes, page 18. Habits, 5X pages 25,30. Soldier, 2X page 6, 22. Boer Commandos, page 416; Manly quality, page 35; Boxing, page 432. In the l998 Handbook: Soldier, pg 334; manliness, 376; Male, 424; habits, 383. Soldier and Knights appear 6 times in the l948 Handbook. Soldier appears once in the modern Handbook. _____________________________ There is one Classical reference in the l948 Handbook. The Athenian code is reproduced, page 119. There is no classical reference in the modern Handbook. _____________________________ The two most premier American scouts of all time were Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone. They are mentioned on page 2 along with Lewis and Clark and Rogers Rangers. One has to wait till page 221 to find a mention of Lewis and Clark in the modern handbook. Historical references, Quotes of other men, in the 1948 Handbook; 2,6,18,22,24,34,42,44,47,56,70,71,120,408 Historical references, Quotes of other men, in the l998 Handbook 221, 338, 335 _________________________________ Pictures of men in the l948 Handbook. 3,9,16,18,34,62,120,121,153,186. Page 120 has four pictures of men. There are two knights, an Indian and a frontiersman with rifle. There are two pictures of the American Founding Fathers. Pictures of men in the Modern Handbook. iii,5,285,343,346,429,433. The pictures are all of Scoutmasters or civilians. ___________________________________ The one-man latrine in the l948 has been converted to a cathole in the modern Handbook. ___________________________________ There are three advertisements for guns in the l948 handbook. Guns are mentioned on page 280, 292. Hunting is also mentioned. Guns and Rifles are never mentioned in the modern version. In the l948 Handbook: to correct your weakness page 24. to toughen you page 143. In the l998 Handbook To give happiness to other people pg 54 To defend the rights of all people pg 46, 54 The person you want to be pg 437 Here's a new one "Give Happiness to other people". This is straight from the Mommy Scouts of America. We have the "right" to abortion and we have a "right" to sleep with anybody we want to. A Boy Scout is to defend rights? Right? Does the boy grow up to be a Man or the transgender Person? Link to post Share on other sites
Scoutmaster Ron 12 Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Wheeler, Did you really look up all these references in the books? Are you really involved with a scouting unit? Link to post Share on other sites
scoutingagain 20 Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 So is everyone busy counting the references above to confirm or disprove their authenticity? Or should I consider it "Truth" or just Wheeler's knowledge? See, if we all would be willing to give up our materialist lifestyles and stop spending time earning money, we too can come to know these things. Although then I would not have a vehicle and would not have been able to take a group of scouts along on a snowshoe trip this past weekend. I'm so confused. SA Link to post Share on other sites
Marty_Doyle 10 Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 I had hoped "he who must not be named" had left the forums, since he hadn't posted in a while (for him). My mistake. He was counting the uses of the word "man" in the indexes. The fact that, between the 1948 and 1998 Handbooks, the Boy Scouts became co-ed at the Explorer/Venturer level, and some Explorers/Venturers could continue to work on Boy Scout ranks using the Handbook, and making it less gender specific could be viewed as "friendly", "courteous" and "kind" and maybe "helpful", doesn't seem to matter. I agree with SA. I should quit my job and spend more time getting an education in the public or the local college) library. (This message has been edited by Marty_Doyle) Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Wheeler, Nice analysis skills! Could you now give me a count on the word "knot" in all forms of Scouting literature? After that, I'd appreciate a count of "camp", "it" and "tent". Oh yes, also "badge". I'll let you know if there is anything else I need. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
Scoutmaster Ron 12 Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Hey Wheeler is discriminatory he forgot to count us Sincerly, Girls and Women Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 If Wheelers point is that the Handbook has changed over 50 years then I agree with that. If Wheeler is suggesting that the editors of the handbook reference every word that appears or every time that word appears then I disagree. Since Wheeler did not do a reverse comparison as to how many times a specific word appears more often in 1998 than in 1948 no real comparative analysis can be made. Since Wheeler has only read the index, and not the actual handbook, he is in no position to make any comparison at all between the two. The Abbot would be very disappointed in his sloppy analytical form. He rings a bell that has no clapper. Link to post Share on other sites
Region 7 Voyageur 10 Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 WHEELER said in his/her? post: Here's a new one "Give Happiness to other people". This is straight from the Mommy Scouts of America. Here is a quote from Lord Baden-Powell: "The most worth-while thing is to try to put happiness into the lives of others." Sir Robert Baden-Powell, Age 80. From his last letters, September, 1940. I would never imply that Baden-Powell was a "Mommy Scout". Link to post Share on other sites
WHEELER 10 Posted March 1, 2004 Author Share Posted March 1, 2004 I read both books front to cover with an highlighter and a pen. Just another example of the whitewashing of literature. We got to be careful not to tell boys what the end product is; we are too busy to perpetrate their immaturity and childish fun. Boys need examples and yet none is given him in the modern handbook. In the book, Sex Differences, boys naturally play war. They invent guns and bows and arrows and play that as children. Do not animals imitate their jobs while playing? Do not cats play at pouncing? Do not lions cubs on the velt imitate their adults? Do not all the progeny of predators imitate their parents? Are humans any different? Why shouldn't any physical imitation such as pictures of frontiersman, pioneers, actual scouts, knights, heroes, and soldiers grace the modern handbook? Because we are busy socializing boys to do the political correct thing of being effeminate? To 'socialize' them for the global village? What happiness did Jesus have here on earth? Cicero complained all the time of depression. God doesn't even make us "happy". I can't find it in the Bible anywhere. I can find toil and hardships for man. I have noticed that when men grow old they become more liberal and effeminate. They all soften. It is a nice thing to say but that is not even a Christian duty to make others happy why would it be a scouts' duty. Does Nature give us happiness? Or does it come out of sorrow and headache first?(This message has been edited by WHEELER)(This message has been edited by WHEELER) Link to post Share on other sites
lasteagle83 10 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 How fitting the word "headache" is right now..... meow Link to post Share on other sites
red feather 10 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 on the bright side he is providing quotes from the 20th century..... meow yis Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I look in my Scout handbook and all I see are people of this era. I just looked through my Bible and I can't believe it! There is not one illustration of a knight, or a pioneer, or frontiersman. All it has are illustrations of the people who were common to that era. What the heck is going on here? Meow! Link to post Share on other sites
Adrianvs 10 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Happiness is good. Cicero was a notorious whiner. Even Augustine couldn't help but say so. Pictures of knights are good, too. That is all. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I figured out what Wheeler's problem is! He posted "I read both books front to cover with an highlighter and a pen" Herein lies the problem! He isn't reading with his eyes! And since he isn't reading with his eyes he isn't getting the correct perspective! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10 Like herding cats ~ I still get a chuckle from that! Link to post Share on other sites
Region 7 Voyageur 10 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 On page 115 of "Handbook for Boys" copyright 1948 it says: "The United Nations stand for World Citizenship" "The Scouting Trail along which these requirements guide you, is the path to citizenship In your Home In your Neighborhood In your Community In your Nation In the World" Now I happen to agree with these statements but based on WHEELER's other rants about the United Nations I find it hard to believe that he is so much in love with the 1948 handbook that speaks well of the United Nations. Link to post Share on other sites
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