Who is Wheeler

[evmori 11]

Actually, Wheeler, 90% of what you post is other people's words. So by you stating you stand behind what you post means absolutly nothing! Sort of like most of your posts!

 

Wheeler=Yaworski=No! Think about it for a minute! Wheeler could be Yaworski using reference material!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Laurie 10]

God's word is being manipulated. Whether one accepts the Holy Bible and the texts quoted as one's own personal authority or not, please see the full context, for I Timothy 4:11 does not simply state to command and teach. It is apparent to me that I may not use this text to command and teach in general, but that I must first be qualified (ie nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which I have followed, trusting in the living God), and I am given specific instruction on what to teach (godliness -- elaborated on if reading more of the preceeding and following text).

 

1 Timothy 4:11, in context, reads this way:

 

"If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed. But reject profane and old wives' fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness. For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having the promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. These things command and teach."

 

The above is verses 6 through 11, copied from the New King James Version of the Holy Bible, published by Nelson.

[Laurie 10]

This is an exciting account about the apostles, who having been "put in the common prison" (Acts 5:18) for performing "many signs and wonders" (Acts 5:12). Acts 5:19-21 states:

 

"But at night an angel of the Lord opened the prison doors and brought them out, and said, 'Go, stand in the temple and speak to the people all the words of this life.' And when they heard that, they entered the temple early in the morning and taught. ..."

 

There was a search for the apostles when it was discovered that they were no longer in prison. They were found in the temple, teaching the people. They were brought before the council in verse 27-29...

 

"...and the high priest asked them, saying, 'Did we not strictly command you not to teach in this name? And look, you have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this Man's blood on us!' But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: 'We ought to obey God rather than men..."

 

The apostles were then beaten and commanded once again in verse 40 "that they should not speak in the name of Jesus".

 

Verse 41 -42 wraps up this account of a choice to obey God rather than man:

 

"So they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for His name. And daily in the temple, and in every house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ."

 

I typed the above from the New King James Version of the Holy Bible printed by Nelson. In the above count, I read of men who were chosen by God to deliver a specific message from and about Jesus, and they did so in spite of men telling them not to and in spite of being beaten and shamed for doing so. Again, I'd not take the liberty of believing from this account that I personally should teach any message I choose, citing my reason using Acts 5:29, saying that I am doing this to obey God rather than man. This passage preaches something other than those messages Wheeler is claiming to teach, yet he is using this text to justify his teaching. Knowing that I many of my fellow posters do not use the New Testament or even the Bible, I'd encourage you to check this out--if only to see that it is being manipulated. And an important thing to note: these men, beaten and shamed for their obedience, did not do this to draw attention to themselves but rather to Jesus: the taught and preached in His name, and they REJOICED when they suffered in His name. No ego, no boasting, no selfishness, no personal gain. Quite different from using this text to lead up to asking, basically, how wonderful am **I** for bringing you **my** teachings.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[Laurie 10]

effeminacy , virtue, Republic, the hypocrisy of the BSA with its promotion of the socialist organization, the UN, the original intention of the BSA program -- things that Wheeler says he has taught to us, and in that same post boasting of what he has taught, he uses Titus 2:15 to support what he is doing.

 

Titus 2:15: "Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you."

 

What things are being referred to? Those listed up above? Taken in context, this is what Titus 2:1-15 states:

 

"But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine; that the older men be sober, reverent, temperate, sound in faith, in love, in patience; the older women likewise, that they may be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things-that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed. Likewise, exhort the young men to be sober-minded, in all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility, sound speech that cannot be condemned, that one who is an opponent may be ashamed, having nothing evil to say of you. Exhort bondservants to be obedient to their own masters, to be well pleasing in all things, not answering back, not pilfering, but showing all good fidelity, that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things. For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all me, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you."

 

The above passages lead me to ask myself these types of questions: Do I try to be obedient or do I respect authority (that of an employer, government, laws, my husband, my God)? Do I seek to be well pleasing in all things as in to do my very best in all that I do (taking pride in working hard at whatever the task might be, caring about what I do and how I do it by using the right tool or instruction or method, by being self-motivated and not working only when reminded to, by practicing the pursuit of excellence in all things)? On it goes, and we may each apply this to ourselves differently, but staying within the text is key to me when using a text.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[Laurie 10]

I John 4:6 -- "We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." This is verse 6 in its entirety.

 

It leads to this:

 

"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another." -- I John 4: 7-11

 

It is preceeded by this:

 

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. You are of God, little children, and overcome them, because He who is in you is greater thatn he who is in the world. They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world and the world hears them. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." -- I John 4:1-6

 

I can speak for myself only, but I read this and ask myself: Am I showing love to others? Am I serving God by serving those around me? Am I certain of my faith, and if not, can I be certain of it? What should the measure of my faith be? Love, service? The earlier verses teach the need to be discerning; yet they lead me to ask: will I discern something and judge or will I discern and live as I ought?

 

For those who may wonder why I am taking so much time to type these verses out, it is because I am deeply troubled at the misuse of them. I do proclaim Jesus Christ, born, died, risen again, and now seated at the right hand of his Father, as my own personal Savior. For His death that led to my security in life, I am thankful, though I confess that I'm not always thankful enough and tend to fail in many ways. (You've all most likely noted that by now ) If you disagree with my words, I'll ask that we may agree to disagree please. If you disagree with what I call God's word, then I'll again ask that we may agree to disagree. It's just that I have read the cautions in Scripture about teaching in Jesus' name (something all verses used has ended up referring to), and I take them seriously amd cannot remain silent when I see verses passed on to others that are not given in context.

[WHEELER 10]

Laurie:

 

You are the one that voted down the post "The training of boys to be men". Scripture commands the training of men. Yet, you have voted this post down. If you really sought after truth, would you have voted this post down?? If you were really loyal to the original intent of the BSA, would you have voted this post down? All the rest of my posts you have voted down continuously and consistently.

 

This is what we call an hypocrite and then you want to attack me. I did not attack anybody with the first post. All I did was present evidence. The second post refuted false preception of a Scoutmaster that said "The BSA is NOT about training boys to men." Then I am castigated over coals.

 

The vehemence that I am treated is proof that I am hitting the mark. The only bear that is attacked by bees is the one with his paws in the honey.

 

 

[hops_scout 9]

START MAKING SENSE!!!!

[Laurie 10]

You, Wheeler, have clearly not read anything that I have written or you would see that I not only promote the idea that young boys need to grow into men, but that I understand how the BSA helps in that process. You question my loyalty to the BSA. Fine, go right ahead, but I am a trained leader who is continuing in training and truly does understand the program. If you cannot say the same, then quite frankly, you've no right to try to correct how I carry out or view the program. Question it? Sure. Correct it? You are not equipped to do so.

 

Do I believe that your definition of what it is to be a man is worthwhile information for the BSA, or let's make it personal--for me? No, I don't. I have said so, and I still think that. I can agree to disagree and not get hung up on the fact that people disagree with me. Yet you have posted at least three times now that I have voted thumbs down for that post--seems that it really bugs you.

 

Have I really voted thumbs down on every post that you've written? Then someone is forging my name, for I've not done so. Many? Yes. All? No.

 

I have not attacked you, though I have not agreed with you on numerous occassions and I have--in this thread--used the verses you listed and put them into context. Not MY context, but I used the verses surrounding what you quoted. You did not use more than part of verses, and the ways they were used were inaccurate. But attack you? Correct, rebuke--yes, I'd plead guilty to that, but attack?

 

You--and anyone else here--is welcome to their opinion of me and my posts. However, think twice about calling me a liar or hypocrite unless you have something solid to back it with.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[firstpusk 10]

Laurie: You are the one that voted down the post The training of boys to be men...

 Dont take it personally. There is much to vote down in the typical WHEELER post.

Scripture commands the training of men...

Some folks are bit sensitive about careless quotation of Scripture. I think she has already schooled you on that - chapter and verse.

Yet, you have voted this post down. If you really sought after truth, would you have voted this post down?? If you were really loyal to the original intent of the BSA, would you have voted this post down? All the rest of my posts you have voted down continuously and consistently.

Seems to me that she is just being persistent if that is the case. Seeing as you dont seem to understand the BSA program and dont participate, who are you to criticize her opinion of your post.

This is what we call an hypocrite and then you want to attack me. I did not attack anybody with the first post. All I did was present evidence. The second post refuted false preception of a Scoutmaster that said The BSA is NOT about training boys to men. Then I am castigated over coals. "

Nice use of the royal we, display of your persecution complex and mixed metaphor. See, this is where you get nasty and personal again. And as usual, without basis. She defends the program we understand and love. You call her a hypocrit. Perhaps you should actually understand what you are talking about. As with much of what you post, you have no basis for the claim.  It is unfair, ill-reasoned and mean-spirited. 

The vehemence that I am treated is proof that I am hitting the mark. The only bear that is attacked by bees is the one with his paws in the honey.

Please, dont flatter yourself. 

 

But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.

Carl Sagan

[Fat Old Guy 11]

Ah, as usual Sagan shows that he didn't have a clue. Bozo wasn't a real person, he wasn't even played by just one person over the years. However, Sagan idioacy is shown best by the fact that he misses the real purpose of Bozo and that is to have people laugh at him.

[Laurie 10]

By the way, Wheeler...

 

In response to this quote of yours: "Laurie: You are the one that voted down the post "The training of boys to be men"."

 

I am one of seven who voted that post down, and it had received a 100% thumbs down.

 

In response to your quote: "All the rest of my posts you have voted down continuously and consistently."

 

Not only have I not voted thumbs down on your every post, but I've not even read them all. Can't prove what I've read/not read, but anyone can see that some of your posts have no thumbs up or thumbs down--impossible if I have voted every one down.

 

Firstpusk, thank you.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[hops_scout 9]

I HAVE voted down on every one of his posts, and I'm proud of it!

 

 

[firstpusk 10]

"Ah, as usual Sagan shows that he didn't have a clue. Bozo wasn't a real person..."

 

FOG, we are talking about WHEELER here. His positions have very little to do with reality. Seems to me the analogy is quite apt.

 

Laurie, you are quite welcome.

 

Bozo, I'm sorry for the comparisons some will make between you and WHEELER.

 

 

[baschram645 10]

Wheeler,

 

You seem to be a person with a vast and broad education. To bad your mind and views are so narrow.

 

As far as life being dangerous, yes it is that is why we have parents and programs such as scouts. To provide a safe place for boys to grow.

No mutilation required.

 

Bryan Schram

SM Troop 645

Harrison, MI

[Fat Old Guy 11]

" To bad your mind and views are so narrow."

 

Any view which opposes yours is narrow.

 

--- Randolph Tangaway