Am I missing Something?

[Eamonn 61]

I have been in Scouting for a long time. A little over 40 years as both a boy and as an adult. I joined because it was fun. I remain because I still have a lot of fun and like most of the people that I meet in Scouting.I have never spend a lot of time thinking about why this is. In the odd moment that I have given it the odd thought I have come up with the idea that these people and I share very similar values. In most cases we get on well with kids and are doing what we can to help them become caring adults.

I am by no means a "Super Scout" and I know at times that I'm not even nice to be near.

While I am not that political now I once was. This may have some bearing on the person that I am today but it has no bearing on my involvement in Scouting. While at times some of the adults that I see in Scouting may express a political opinion or tell a joke about a political figure. I don't see their political conviction as playing any part in their involvement in Scouting. Any more then me being a Catholic and them being something else does. We all have failings, none of us are perfect and at the end of the day we try to do our best to serve the kids that we happen to like and some we don't even know.

There are some things in the BSA that I think could or should be changed or improved and I have the choice that I can play by the rules and hope that one day they might change or I can leave. At present I have opted to remain and will play the game by the rules.

I have never viewed the Scout Oath and Law as being politically correct. In fact I not so sure what politically correct really means. If it means going out of your way to try not to upset or offend someone - Please Sign me up. I was of the opinion that the Scout Oath and Law had that covered.

The kids/youth that I am serving are living in todays world. They learn in a different way then I was taught, they see things on TV and the Internet that I never seen. Their parents have different standards then my parents and maybe I have. Their hair may be too long or too short or even multi colored but these are the kids that I serve. I happen to like them and like them a lot.

Over the past weeks there seems to be a lot of people questioning the rules. My answer is if you don't like the rules - Leave.

People who don't like the Kids. If that is the case you are in the wrong organization.

This is supposed to be a "Jolly Game" If you can't be jolly without shoving your politics in my face then please don't be upset if I blow you a king sized raspberry in yours (I did say that I wasn't perfect.) Yes the game has a purpose the purpose is to help these young people become caring adults.

Eamonn

[Bob White 20]

I'm with you Eamonn. The many leaders I have worked with do not talk about the politics of scouting, we are to busy playing the game of scouting. I think thats why I get so disappointed reading supposed leaders of the program being so degrading of it. But that's just me.

[andrewcanoe 10]

I'm with my fellow posters here if you can't play by the rules or don't like the rules of the game, find another game to play and let the rest of us have fun.

[Zahnada 11]

I think most people in this forum are here because they love scouting and want what's best for it. And I think that's why debates get so heated. I agree that the BSA program is a thing of beauty and when followed properly it can bring about wonderful results.

 

However, I also believe that nothing (at least nothing man-made) is perfect. BSA is no exception. I like coming to these forums because people here bring up questions that I had never considered before. They push the limits of the program. Everyone here who complains does so because they have an idea of what is best for the boys and for scouting.

 

Of course there's a line too. And I think that line is the forum. This is a great place to air out ideas and so I don't mind people testing the limits of the program and even the basic elements of scouting (oath and law). However, when we get out to the troops, our duty is to deliver the best program we have to the boys. It is not a time to experiment around or form renegade troops under the name of scouting.

 

So I say let's allow the forum to be heated and constructive. It can be critical and helpful. But always remember our duty.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Zahnada,

 

Exactly.

[evmori 11]

Well put, Zahnada

[scoutingagain 20]

Good post Zahnada. I agree.

 

In scouting I make a conscious effort to be nonpolitical around scouts and leaders. Occaisionally an issue might come up but it is not discussed for long.

 

I do enjoy a spirited discussion though. Maybe it's my New Jersey upbringing. When my family gets together it's not uncommon for us to have spirited "discussions" on politics, scouting, sports or other subjects. It's how we interact. I may disagree with my father or one of my brothers over an issue but it doesn't diminish my love for them. The "discussions" drive my wife nuts though. She doesn't get how we can be so spirited in our arguments, yet still get along.

 

I see some of that in these forums. People with widely different viewpoints on subjects, yet for the most part there is a high level of respect among participants. There have been good points made on differents sides of many positions. There have been some silly ones as well. All keep the grey matter active.

 

I've mainly picked up some great scouting knowledge. The Issues & Politics threads are just a bonus.

 

SA

[WHEELER 10]

Is that what life is FUN? What is the essence of life? What is life all about?

[evmori 11]

LIFE = Living Is Fun Everyday

[Laurie 10]

No, Wheeler, life is not always fun. However, fun is the best part of being a kid and usually what is sought after the most. The beauty of Cubs is that it is "fun with a purpose". As for Boy Scouts, the fun is a bit different, coming more in the way of adventure, particularly on outings. Always there is a purpose: character, citizenship, fitness. Noone here is denying that. What we know is that it is the fun that attracts the boys. This world is hard, and as the boys grow they will have more and more challenges and decisions to make, but they don't need to be serious now. They need to be allowed to be children. So I'm not sure what your view of Scouting is, but I'm glad that Scouting provides a safe haven for our youth, one built on fun activities. I trust that in those activities the boys will learn to better deal with the world around them (but that's the leader's job--to accomplish the purpose while the boys have the fun).

[Proud Eagle 13]

I do have to agree with the general idea.

 

However, I take slight issue with the choice of "caring adult" as the objective. While I certainly can't claim to be any great expert on such things, I think the program is greatly flawed if "caring" is its prime objective, but I don't think it is. Instead I would suggest "caring" is one of the many qualities that should be found in a succesful product of the BSA program.

 

Also, I see nothing wrong with mixing a bit of BSA and politics from time to time. If some of us get into a political discussion around the campfire at night, (or more likely, around a dining hall table during a OA event) I see nothing wrong with that. Certainly I would object to someone using the program as their own private political indoctrination system, but politics isn't a third rail issue. Now that being said, I do try to be careful around the youth in the troop about politics. Mostly that is because I know most of them don't really want to hear what I have to think about it. There is also the element that I don't want to use my BSA position to influence them. It is similar to my position on religion. I don't use Scouting as a way to proselitize, but if anyone has questions or concerns, I will certainly explain my position as well as I can.

[Proud Eagle 13]

I do have to agree with the general idea. However, I take slight issue with the choice of "caring adult" as the objective. While I certainly can't claim to be any great expert on such things, I think the program is greatly flawed if "caring" is its prime objective, but I don't think it is. Instead I would suggest "caring" is one of the many qualities that should be found in a successful product of the BSA program. Also, I see nothing wrong with mixing a bit of BSA and politics from time to time. If some of us get into a political discussion around the campfire at night, (or more likely, around a dining hall table during a OA event) I see nothing wrong with that. Certainly I would object to someone using the program as their own private political indoctrination system, but politics isn't a third rail issue. Now that being said, I do try to be careful around the youth in the troop about politics. Mostly that is because I know most of them don't really want to hear what I have to think about it. There is also the element that I don't want to use my BSA position to influence them. It is similar to my position on religion. I don't use Scouting as a way to proselytize, but if anyone has questions or concerns, I will certainly explain my position as well as I can.

[matuawarrior 10]

It's hard to believe that I've been with the Scouter Forums for a year now as a registered member. Although, I was lurking for a couple of years before I finally registered.

 

In that time frame, I've read many posts from many posters here, as we all have. Some I've agreed with and others I don't. There are times when I felt the threads have gone off on a weird tangent but I try to follow along as best I could to the originals posters question or idea.

 

I've learned that many of us who claim to be Scouters do Love what we do and are very passionate with the program by what we submit in our postings.

 

We do interpret the Scout Oath and Law differently. Is that a good thing? I believe so. It makes me understand each one of you out there a lot more. It also makes me understand why you post the way you do. It also helps me understand the way I feel about me, my values, and my part in the Scouting Movement.

 

Each of us have different experiences that we can bring to the table. Some of us see things in black and white and that's how we live our lives. Others see things in grays. We want to believe that we are always right. That's not always the case. I have more respect for those who stand by their ideals than those who tend to waver alot and not make a stand but it doesn't mean that I have to agree with or like them. When thier beliefs conflict with mine.

 

In the end as Eamonn has posted, it all boils down to having Fun in the Program for our Youths. But, Our idea of Fun is also up for interpretation.

 

Matua

[WHEELER 10]

Fun. Do you not think that maybe you are giving a false impression of life. Are you really preparing them for life? Is real life about having fun?

 

When you habituate older boys that every thing has got to be "fun", I think sends a wrong answer. Military boot camp is not about fun. Doing most labor is not fun.

 

I was at college when a college professor said the same thing in this message. "let them have fun". When you expect people to behave like kids they will remain kids. The Boy Scout program is about growing up. Not maintaining childishness. This is setting a bad precedent. These kids enter the mainstream of life thinking everything is like that. It isn't.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Wheeler,

 

I have a few questions for you, just as a matter of curiosity. None of them are any of my business, so you can ignore them if you'd like. I think some of them have been asked of you by others, but I have not seen any answers. Your most recent post in this thread prompts me to ask, because in my experience, the people who have the most advice to share about raising children, and the greatest interest in sharing, quite often seem to have no children of their own. Of if they do, the children are nowhere near the age about which the advice is being given. Maybe you don't fall into that category, but we shall see, perhaps:

 

So:

 

Do you have any children?

If so, how old are they?

Are any of your children male?

If so, are any of them in Scouting, and if so, at what levels?

Were you (or are you) a Boy Scout?

Are you now, or have you ever been, an adult Scouter?

And just to add a little more perspective, a really "improper" question:

How old are you? I don't mean down to the year necessarily, just by decade.