FScouter 24 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 In the old days if Johnny failed the test, he sat in the corner wearing the Dunce cap. Later, Billy excels brilliantly and gets a gold star next to him name. Today, any mention that Billy did a good job is equivalent to putting Johnny in the corner with the dunce cap? Link to post Share on other sites
fotoscout 15 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 This is certainly the extreme, but its not inconstant with the thoughts that many people now have about our schools. Here in my part of the world, the schools evolve around the overachievers. Absolutely everything goes into the top third of kids that excel at something, and it could be anything; academics, arts, sports, or socialization skills. The middle third of the kids are able to ride the wave and survive (sometimes flourish), in the wake. The lower third, to the exclusion of their socioeconomic or demographic background, slowly become disenfranchised. One tick at a time, these kids are falling further away from success. If you remember Columbine, you might remember much of what was written and reported about this large population of disenfranchised youths that we have currently have in our society. Its interesting to note that I wrote a response here in the forum some time ago, about uniform inspections that basically had the same message. Today the State of Tennessee agrees with me. However, I do think that this is a little over the top. Heres a thought for all of you that want to see the Honor Roll returned to its place of honor. Perhaps the local Honor Rolls should be printed weekly, on the front page of every local and regional newspaper in oversized bold type. Maybe even in color. Maybe each and every local radio station should be mandated to report the local Honor Rolls. And maybe, just maybe, those of you that are nodding your heads in agreement should think of yourselves in the same way that we think of those out of control soccer parents we despise so greatly. Link to post Share on other sites
FScouter 24 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 If a child does a good job, Mommy and Daddy had better not give him any praise, lest his brother or sister feel like less than a human being. Link to post Share on other sites
fotoscout 15 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 FScouter, In your own tongue and cheek way, you have supported the point thats being made here. Youve described a situation that is very prevalent, and of great concern to many parents. (This message has been edited by fotoscout) Link to post Share on other sites
berkshirescouter 11 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 In the real world people are advanced on merit. If not then it is preference not related to how good you are. Remember the I have a dream speech. 'Content of... ' If our society does not promote the best others will pass us by. Can you speek Chinese, or French or German or... You had better. Parents must help their children be the best they can be and be ready for life. (Sounds like Scouting?) If kids are getting picked on for not doing well help them, don't bring down the rest to their level. Ill get off my soap box. sorry for the rant you may now resume the discussion Link to post Share on other sites
Wallace 10 Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 This kind of "school system stupidity" is one of reasons that our family is moving out of Nashville this summer. sad, sad, sad... The town is great, but the schools are not. There is too much administration and not enough education. I had a similar discussion at a recent leaders meeting. A few leaders want to award every boy that participates in the PWD with a trophy. A few others and I do not. Life is about winning and losing. Both have great value. How you deal with both shows your true measure. Link to post Share on other sites
Fuzzy Bear 12 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Recognition should be a reward for an outcome that actually leads someplace beneficial. This hiding of a light under a basket law is akin to muzzling the neighbors dog that never barks. This remedy is a cheap fix and most everyone will readily acknowledge the kangaroo-court pratfall that it is but few will really want anything else. Schools presently push academics and sports because there is a lack of money allocated to effectively educate the populace. So, recognition generally goes to the top 20% with high academic achievement and the top 15% with some type of sports abilities. These accomplishments are important to the school personnel because that is the recognition for the work that they are doing for those students. It becomes a type of advertisement to keep their jobs. Blame should not be cast because the teachers/coaches are working within the budget given to them by a public that appears to be indifferent. It is a type of win-win situation for this minority of students, the parents, and their teachers. This is another cheap fix for a problem that everyone knows about but can't seem to address. The problem with this fantasy of glory does not show up until about four years after the banners of success have been unfurled at graduation for this top 35%. The majority of the top 20% of the academic achievers will not be holding down professional jobs as expected. The majority will not have completed a four-year degree as predicted. The top 15% of athletes will not be playing in a college and most likely only .0001% will ever be paid to play it professionally. My suggestion is to look first at how the other 65% of the students are being educated and what they are doing with their lives after graduation to find out what types of improvements are needed in the educational system. Most of these underachievers are returning to our communities and working in jobs all around us. If we have done a poor job with these kids, then we will have failed ourselves in many ways all that will be noticeable. If people really want children to be recognized for more than academics and sports, then the public will need to put their money on new found beliefs. Increase the spending to teach children at all levels and to teach them so that they are capable of entering the world of work upon graduation or entering a vo-tech or a college or for any number of other types of jobs or professions*. All students need to be adequately prepared academically and/or vocationally to live independently in our communities. If this is done, we would be doing a favor for everyone and for the future. We would also be recognized as a country that truly has public education. (*Note: This is not the no child left behind rhetoric because it means to teach children according to their abilities and their interests not use one standard for all. The NCLB will only lead to more of the same things seen before. All kids are different and society has all kinds of different needs.) FB Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 " Here in my part of the world, the schools evolve around the overachievers." In my little corner of the world, the top third and bottom third get the special tutors, field trips, etc.. The middle group gets ignored. Link to post Share on other sites
kasane 10 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 When my step-son was in the 4th grade, his teacher decided to try a reward system for good behaviour. Instead of her awarding good behaviour awards each week, she had each child assess their own behaviour. If the child felt they were good ALL week, they would have a leaf with their name on it on a merit tree in the hallway. Note that the merit tree was not in their classroom and none of the other classes in the school were doing this. At parent teacher night, I asked why there were many leaves with the same names on the tree and there were none of the rest of class including my step-son. She told me how this worked and the students that were not on the tree had chosen not to put themselves on the tree. This had gone on for nearly 4 months and I don't think anyone had actually questioned her about it, including the school administration. I questioned my step-son, in front of the teacher, why he felt that he didn't deserve to be on the tree. Remember that although the teacher didn't pick the kids, she did put the leaves on the tree as it was quite high up on the wall (thereby acknowledging the achievement). The teacher had not called us about any behaviour problems, but my step-son felt that he didn't deserve to be on the tree because each week he would do something he felt was bad - like yell, get angry, get a bad mark on classwork, so he wouldn't put his name forward. He was also scared that if he did, she would turn him down. Needless to say he was in tears because no one had asked him about it before. The teacher was actually surprised to hear how self-critical my son was and how upset he was over this. She then tried to defend it by saying, that yes he was handful sometimes; thereby reinforcing his feelings that he deserved not to be ever on the tree. She had not, in the entire 4 months she was doing this, ask the children who had not put their names forward why they didn't do it. She just assumed that they decided not too because they were bad when they were actually beating themselves up over small things that she could have overlooked, but they didn't. I was furious because a 4th grade teacher felt it was necessary for children to criticize themselves and then make a decision about whether to reward themselves accordingly and be publicly acknowledged for it. Complaints to the school and the teacher did not do anything - the tree was still there by the end of the school year. My step-son, now that the entire problem had been acknowledged decided that it was now a point of honour NOT to be on the tree. We made special efforts to support him and acknowledge good behaviour and school work, even though his teacher was determined not to.(This message has been edited by kasane) Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 kasane, It sounds like this teacher was rewarding expected behavior not exceptional behavior. I as a parent expect my kids to follow the rules and have good behavior in school. My wife & I don't reward it. We do punish bad behavior. Exceptional behavior is rewarded! Sort of like the real world! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
fotoscout 15 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 FOG, I could agree with you except that here, the lower third of kids dont easily get the help they need. Unless the child is severely learning disabled, the parents have to fight tooth and nail to get the additional appropriate help. Link to post Share on other sites
eisely 13 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 In the spirit of not hurting anybody's feelings, maybe we should outlaw awarding recognition for patrol performance at camporees. Anybody in favor of that? Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 And let's not give out quality unit awards either! Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Ban the Super Bowl, Stanley Cup and the NBA championship. Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted January 30, 2004 Author Share Posted January 30, 2004 So, if we don't reward excellence, then we have to devise a society where everyone is viwed as equal in all respects as his/her neighbor, we will live in a society where being average, or common is the goal. Don't try to rise above everyone else as this will be wrong, it means you are not longer common, but uncommon. Perhaps all the people who feel we should all be the same and treated the same should get together and organize themselves somehow. Such a Union of those who wish all to be Common could be call Common Unionists, Hello, what's that? This all sounds vaguely familiar... Has this been tried before? Link to post Share on other sites
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