Is God Dead?

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Adrian, other than you, nobody has been talking about penalizing "speech" in this thread, certainly not I. The subject matter here is physical violence.

 

As an aside, Adrian, from many of your posts it seems to me that you are "hung up" on left/right ideological distinctions and that you have a need to place other people (like me) in one of these categories. I'm sorry, but I don't fit any of your labels or the neat lists of beliefs that you think go along with them.

[Adrianvs 10]

No no, I am not talking about some cognitive conception causing the reaction. Jewishness is not a physical phenomenon and thus cannot provoke a GUT reaction. One can spur themselves to violence for such beliefs, of course, but that is not what I am referring to.

 

There are plenty of physical actions and dispositions to actions that you would deem as making an individual unfit for membership in the BSA. You would have no problem deeming them "morally unclean." Where do you get these ideas? Nietzche and Bernard Shaw and Herbert Spencer tell me that these are just silly superstitions. Why are the actions that you disapprove of so different from the ones that the BSA disapproves of? To my philosopher friends over there, you are as much a superstitious bigot as the BSA. Prove them wrong.

[Adrianvs 10]

NJ,

 

A apologize if I have mischaracterized your position on the issues of hate speech legislation, the role of government in economic distribution, religion in the public sector, or abortion.

 

I don't see you as a malevolent figure at all. In fact, I admire your resolve in refuting what you believe to be mistaken views when it would be much easier to ignore them. Left? Right? I don't like the bipolar labeling system either, but there are definate trends in the holding of ideas. I rather enjoy finding the exceptions, however.

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

I am still interested in the "joke". I realize that it was a sharp upper cut to gather inspiration, instill religiosity, give a belly laugh, and to inflate pride all at the same time. This is a good balancing act for a paragraph. The author certainly has wit and ability but is shortsighted.

 

I wonder what would have happened if the marine would have let the professor stay the full fifteen minutes? From what I understand about God, He would not have taken a swing nor would He have sent anybody to do it for Him. God could have knocked the man into the next country because He is all powerful. It would then be silly to send a marine or an army to do it for Him.

 

The God I know would have allowed the professor to remain at the podium. God is not to be tempted. He is all-intelligent so it makes it unnecessary for Him to "prove" anything, especially in this situation. God does not want to scare anyone into believing in Him. Knocking somebody down would bring the opposite effect from the crowd. People would run from Him and not to Him.

 

God would let the professor prove his point by allowing the proof to be made that God does not exist in an earthly form. In other words, the professor was using the experiment wrongly to prove his point. He could use an experiment to prove what God is and that is He is all-Spirit.

 

So, the joke would need to be rephrased.

 

I will stand up here for fifteen minutes and if God is who he says he is then I will remain in this very spot. The marine being a dutiful servant of the Almighty would have kept his seat and folded his fists in prayer. The professor would remain unmoved during the whole performance. The crowd would be astonished at the insight of the professor for proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that God is really a Spirit, that He is all-intelligent, and that His power is vested in the strength of his Word, which is not to beat people into submission.

 

I guess it is not as funny but then I dont tell jokes very well.

 

[packsaddle 753]

"...resistance is futile..."

I heard lots of jokes like this way back in high school days. They were mostly aimed at blacks (back then referred to as n------)and Jews, sometimes gays (referred to as 'queers' then). Although I understood the jokes, I didn't get them then...or now. Incidentally and somewhat ironically, when I would wear my Scout uniform to school, the 'queer' jokes were the ones aimed at me.

 

Anyone who enjoyed the original joke in this thread should also enjoy the unexpected twist I just mentioned. But I admit it wasn't the side-splitter that the original was.

 

Adrianvs, if Fat Old Guy decides to start slugging I suggest that we all just outrun him.

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"If lucky, FOG would only be fined or incarcerated for his "hate speech.""

 

Fortunately, I don't live in Canada.

 

[captainron14 11]

 

Merlyn_Leroy,

I'm waiting for your answer to Big Dog.

After reading your "views", I'd like to know also. So here is his post again, in case you forgot.

 

Merlyn-

 

Do you have something in your life that truly brings you joy? I'm not trying to be mean or sarcastic, I just hope bashing Scouting is not the highlight of your life. Were you ever in Scouts, and if so, did you enjoy some of the experiences?

Hope you have a great weekend...

 

[packsaddle 753]

Captainron14,

I would like to respond to your repetition of Big Dog's question. Although I don't pretend to know Merlyn's inner thoughts or pleasures, I also acknowledge that, whatever they are, I consider them irrelevant to rational argument on this topic. I believe that Merlyn has not questioned personal features of your life nor has he questioned personal features of Big Dog's life. Nor should he. He merely adds a sharp, critical view to this forum - one that often causes discomfort among some of the respondents. I for one enjoy most of his contributions, even when I disagree.

 

To me, whether he is angry or jovial is not relevant to the ideas he proposes. But this is just my personal view.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Capt. Ron, if you want to see some of what I do for fun, check out http://www.firesigntheatre.com , the Firesign Theatre's website. They're a rather well-known comedy troupe, and I do their website, and I've even written for them. I was in the cub scouts years ago, and my mom was a den mother, and we were both atheists. This was in the 1960s, before the BSA started throwing out atheists.

 

However, when the BSA (or any other group) discriminates against atheists, no branch of the US government can aid them by chartering units, or by giving them government grants to aid these units, or by giving them special deals on government property. The BSA has to be treated just the same as any other group that discriminates on the basis of religion, instead of all the special favors it gets now.

[Fat Old Guy 11]

So Merlyn, neither you nor your mother found it hypocritical to pledge to do a duty to God when you believe that God doesn't exist?

[Rooster7 11]

As a God-fearing, God-loving Christian, I find it difficult not to resent the professor in this "joke". Yet, upon reflection, I realize these mockers of God should not be despised but pitied. Merlyn, when youre not tucked behind the warm walls of your home with your head buried in your

blankets, try reading and meditating on Proverbs 1.

[evmori 11]

"However, when the BSA (or any other group) discriminates against atheists, no branch of the US government can aid them by chartering units, or by giving them government grants to aid these units, or by giving them special deals on government property."

 

Merlyn,

I'm guessing you based this statement on that separation of church & state thing that doesn't exist. Wait. I'm wrong! It does exist because someone mis-interpretated the 1st Ammendment.

 

And you did reap the benefits of Scouting when you were a youngster. You lied through your eye teeth, though! So what does that say about your character? Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

 

I use to be a Firesign Theatre fan but since I see what their membership stands for, I will no longer partake of their humor. And I would suggest other Scouters do the same.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

 

FOG, when I joined the cub scouts, I didn't pledge a duty to god; I omitted it, and nobody cared. Like I said, this was back when the BSA didn't kick out atheists. There are still packs & troops that allow atheists to join and to omit god if they want to, from what I hear.

 

Hey ed, there's nothing dishonest about an atheist omitting god when he makes a promise. When I joined (at about 10) the only other oaths I knew about at the time were oaths in court to testify, and the president's oath of office, and I knew that in both of those cases, "god" could be omitted, so I assumed the same for the scout oath.

 

Since nobody cared when I omitted "god" and the manual didn't explicitly say that atheists couldn't join, just how should I have known? And what if the pack had been chartered by my public school, as thousands of cub scout packs still are? Public schools can't exclude atheists from youth groups that they "own and operate".

[Fat Old Guy 11]

Well Merlyn, since you never took the Cub Scout Oath, you were never really a Cub Scout. We thank you for your donations but please stop telling people that you were a Cub Scout.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

 

Sorry, FOG, I was a cub scout. Of course, I wouldn't join such a bigoted group nowadays.