Pete Rose and the non apologetic apology

[eisely 13]

The following column was written by George Will. OK, he's a conservative, but he is also a baseball fan. I think he has much to offer on the subject of integrity and baseball. Is there a teaching moment here regarding scouting values?

______________________________

 

Sorry, Charlie

 

By George F. Will

Thursday, January 8, 2004

 

hustle:verb to work or act rapidly or energetically.

 

-- Webster's New World Dictionary

 

But "hustle" also is a noun: "A way of making money, esp. a dishonest way."

 

Pete Rose, who walked 1,566 times in his major league career but always sprinted to first base, was called "Charlie Hustle." His new hustle is his book, for which he reportedly received a $1 million advance, in anticipation of sales generated by his coming clean about having bet on baseball, which no one seriously interested in the subject doubted he had done. No one, that is, other than professional contrarians, or commentators emancipated from facts by not having read the 1989 report that caused Rose to accept "permanent" banishment from baseball.

 

Rose's coming clean is the most soiled conversion of convenience since . . . well, Aug. 17, 1998, when DNA evidence caused Bill Clinton to undergo a memory clarification. On the diamond, no one ever wrung more success from less natural talent than Rose did. But his second autobiography, which refutes the first, makes worse the mess he has made.

 

The supposedly truth-telling book contains this patent lie: "During the times I gambled as a manager, I never took an unfair advantage. I never bet more or less based on injuries or inside information." But he also says -- does he even read his autobiographies? -- "I began betting regularly on the sport I knew best -- baseball." Managing the Reds, he knew -- he decided -- when a tired or injured star would be played or rested. And the network of bookies handling his bets knew that he knew.

 

While saying, "It's time to take responsibility," he cunningly exploits the zeitgeist of today's therapeutic society. He is, he insists, a victim.

 

A victim of an addiction -- gambling while managing the Reds substituted for the "high" he had gotten when competing as a player. And he is a victim of a double standard: He would have been treated more leniently -- more therapeutically -- had his problem been drugs rather than gambling. But baseball has especially severe sanctions about gambling because competitive integrity is baseball's raison d'etre. Americans, a forgiving people, are forever refuting the proposition that there are no second acts in American life. Almost anyone can recover from almost anything by convincingly saying, "I'm sorry."

 

Rose lied -- and charmed the gullible -- for 14 years. Now, with the clock running out on his eligibility to election by baseball writers to the Hall of Fame, he pugnaciously says: I lied but "I'm just not built" to "act all sorry or sad or guilty" about it. "Act''? Rose's critics have said that repentance is a necessary -- not a sufficient -- prerequisite for restoring his eligibility to the Hall of Fame. Many, probably most, of Rose's critics are revolted by the moral obtuseness of his synthetic repentance.

 

His dwindling band of defenders responds that it is unfair to judge Rose not by what he does but by the way he does it. Yet regarding repentance, the way you do it is what you do.

 

Cooperstown primarily honors players for, in players' parlance, the "numbers they put up." Hence it is widely believed that selection to the Hall is exclusively about the statistical residue of players' careers and should not involve a "morals clause" -- consideration of character.

 

But the rules for election by members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America include: "Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played." The rules for voting by the veterans' committee similarly mention "integrity, sportsmanship, character."

 

Some will say that if admittance to the Hall were limited by a strict calculus of character, the Hall would be much smaller. Yes, Babe Ruth might have hit even more home runs if he had gone to bed earlier, and more often with Mrs. Ruth. But not all character issues are equally pertinent to the proper criteria for honoring athletes' achievements. The crucial criteria concern the integrity of the competition.

 

Rose has said, "I was raised, but I never did grow up." He is not the only ballplayer who will be forever a boy. But what distinguishes him is not mere boyish roguishness but a hard, calculating adult amorality. There is a constancy to it that goes beyond recidivism, which implies episodes of recovery between relapses.

 

On the evidence of his book, he should never be back in a major league uniform as a manager or coach. And he should not be admitted to the Hall of Fame unless its character criterion is declared irrelevant, which is not what the nation needs from the national pastime.

 

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

I like George Will. His best columns are the ones he write on baseball. I admire Pete Rose's baseball career. I've been one of those people that in the past have felt like he has paid his penance and deserves his place in the Hall of Fame. Then I watched him on ABC last night. Yeah, he finally admitted he bet on baseball and his own team. But he is still in deep denial. He is only admitting his guilt as a ploy to get what he feels is his due, not because he is really sorry for what he did. If he ever "gets it", I'll be all for him being reinstated. If he never does, I'm willing to bet (pun intended) that he will not get in the Hall of Fame until after his death.

 

That said, yes there is some strong teaching material here for Scouts. Actions carry consequences. Once you lie, how do you regain trust? A part of forgivness involves repentance.

[NeilLup 13]

I believe that George Will is close but not quite right on the mark.

 

I believe that there is a very clever, well calculated and well timed marketing program to coordinate, market and maximize the impact and revenue from the following:

 

1)Pete Rose's book

2) Pete Rose's interviews, public appearances, etc.

3) Pete Rose's potential admission to the baseball Hall of Fame

 

I believe that the "apology" is designed to maximize the revenue from 1 and 2 and, if possible, make 3 happen. I do believe that Mr. Rose is in almost complete denial.

 

I have heard it suggested on local radio that the book, apology, etc. were timed this year for a reason. Apparently Mr. Rose and his advisors believe that he will get a favorable HOF vote from the baseball writers. That is the group who votes on him for 2 more years. After that, it is the veteran's group including all the current members of the HOF. The thought is the veteran's group is much less likely to vote Mr. Rose in while he is still alive.

 

Message for Scouts?

 

1)Publicity doesn't mean character

2)Being the best there has ever been at something society thinks is really important and rewards greatly doesn't mean character and doesn't mean happiness

3)Possibly - you can run but you can't hide

 

Contrast Pete Rose with Dennis Eckersley who was recently voted in:

 

1) Very serious problems with alcoholism which he overcame. Lost family, etc.

2) Very good starting pitcher, then when he lost some of that skill, reinvented himself, learned a new skill and became, arguably, the best high pressure closing relief pitcher in the history of the game.

3) Very open, honest, enthusiastic and humble guy. A real pleasure to listen to.

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

Pete hits ball off top of outfield fence but walks home with a bucket of money. -Today's Headline

 

Pete will be inducted to the HOF by a majority that sees his credentials as being a good ball player and they will be correct.

 

Pete will make a million off a book that is most likely a short hit to third but he will only hobble to first. This will be done on the grounds that reading the truth in "his" book will somehow set the populace free of so many unanswered questions.

 

Pete will make another bunch on the yak-yak circuit because he has been "caught" in the middle of double-speak and they believe they can figure him out by hearing him spew more of the same.

 

Pete will sign a million baseballs and be paid handsomely by all of the fans who have decided that he is vindicated and should have never been treated so unfairly.

 

Pete will make another bushel of money on the morning yak-yaks trying to explain how he is cured and will most likely sell the cure in the form of another best selling book on how to 'beat the gamble'. He may even find the Lord which would cast him into the big church speaking circuit and, bingo!, another mill.

 

Pete has become an institution, sort of like a company. Buying stock in Pete will most likely pay off.

 

The truth about Pete is simple.

Is he a gambler, sure? Did he bet with insider information? Does a bear sit in the woods? Did he make a mill of such methods? If it didnt, shame, shame on poor Pete.

 

What do Scouts get from this? The same as the rest of us: Confusion, frustration, allot of yak-yak and pseudo-science.

 

What can Scouts get from this? Pete is not alone, nor is the ex President or the Enron executives or Rush or any number of other people that believe that lying, bending the truth, making the truth fit their little agenda is acceptable. It hurts the person. It hurts others.

 

It may look glorious because the person is on the stage and is writing books and making bucks but it only makes the person small inside and out.

 

As for the Scouts and the rest of us, knowledge of wrong does not mean that one must do it. The real test of understanding this lesson is that it should motivate us to run as fast as we possibly can from it, allot like Pete did around the bases.

 

FB

 

[kjamma4 10]

On occasion, I have doled out punishment to my son for lying. In particular, he did something wrong and when questioned about this, lied and said he did not do it. Depending on what he did wrong in the first place, he might receive X days of punishment. However, if he lied, he will have 2X more days tacked on.

 

On at least one occasion, what I considered a punishable offense was reduced when he came to me and 'fessed up before I found out.

 

I know that my son will not stop incorrect behavior altogether at his age. However, I try to instill in him the lesson that no matter what you did wrong, you only make it worse by further lying.

 

In Pete Rose's case, I am not going to judge the sincerity of his apology. However, if I ran the show, I would automatically put a 14 year moratorium on his eligibility to the HOF. I figure if it took him that long to finally admit what he did, he should have to wait that long to be eligible.

 

After the 14 years, depending on his actions, he might be eligible for the HOF for his on field exploits, the message being that not only are you expected to come clean, you are expected to do it expeditiously.

[acco40 95]

What is the purpose of the baseball Hall of Fame? To add glory to ball players, managers and sportwriters? To create a "shrine" for the fans? If the latter, Mr. Rose's accomplishments should be well cataloged into the HOF but no formal induction of the man should occur. Pete bet on baseball. He was aware of the consequences when he did it. If or when he issues a contrite apology, I believe baseball (the commissioner's office) should lift the ban allowing him to make a living via MLB (i.e. manage, scout, etc.) but still not induct him into the HOF. His accomplishments may be formally recognized in the HOF but include his character foibles too (with respect to baseball betting only).

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Pete Rose wins no awards for "attitude" from me, either from when he was a player or manager, when he was first accused of gambling, or now. I also think that with his "non-apology" and his subsequent comments that say in essence, "get over it," I personally think that he has blown his last change for reinstatement as an active participant in the game. He has said (if anyone can believe what he says) that his main goal is to be a manager again, and that being in the Hall of Fame is secondary.

 

But I think that is exactly where he should be -- in the Hall of Fame. Maybe without the fancy ceremony, in order to "send a message" to the fans about his behavior. But the purpose of the Hall of Fame as I see it is simply to recognize the greatest careers in the game. It is not to hold the honorees up as role models of character, otherwise there are some long-installed members who would have to be removed. The man got more base hits than anyone else in the history of the game. I don't think his behavior changes that -- but it does change whether baseball welcomes him back as an active participant now.

[purcelce 11]

Pete needs to be piledrived again by Kane