The Beatles? Appropriate for Scouting?

[evmori 11]

You need some bran, man!

 

What is your favorite type of music, Bob?

 

Yes that was my post. What's your point? Yes I love rock n roll. The music. I never implied anything else! You once again assumed that's what I meant and once again you are WRONG!

 

See any Christian artists in that list, Bob? If you didn't you better look again! You only see what you want & that is usually not much.

 

When the Beatles cam out I was 8 years old! I loved their music. Still do. I though they were cool! And so did millions of others at the time.

 

I didn't start this thread. I had nothing to do with it's origins. If you think otherwise, the you are more deluded than I thought!

 

What Fat Old Guys purpose in starting this thread was, I don't know. But I do know this, Mr. White, you in no way practice what you preach. You don't like it when someone attacks you without cause yet you do it on a regular basis. If you can't take it, don't dish it out! Yes my comment was sarcastic. But It was not an attack on you. Just an observation! You on the other hand loaded up and fired with both barrels. And once again missed.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[NJCubScouter 1389]

First to Adrian:

 

I did not characterize anything falsely, nor am I required to abide by your dictionary. In other other thread I showed you a dictionary definition of "hypocrisy" that fit my usage. Whether it is a public figure or someone posting on this board, when someone holds other people to a different standard than their own conduct, I call that person a hypocrite, unless they have openly (and credibly) renounced their past conduct. You can call the person whatever you'd like.

 

Second, to FOG:

 

So basically what you are saying is that the responsibilities of role-model-hood are limited to those who have placed themselves in the public spotlight. That's an interesting statement coming from a Scouter, if indeed that is what you are. This being the Issues and Politics Forum, I can also say that I find your statement especially interesting coming from someone who supports a BSA policy that excludes certain people on the basis that they are poor role models.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

I suppose I run a risk here of hijacking this thread, but under the circumstances it would be a mercy-hijack.

 

My last post concluded with a sentence about a certain BSA policy, and having re-read it (and my computer apparently being Edit-challenged as far as this forum goes), I just want to clarify what I said because I can already imagine someone jumping on it:

 

I agree with the BSA that adult leaders should be good role models for youth. My disagreement with the current BSA leadership deals with exactly what "good role model" means in one particular situation.

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"coming from someone who supports a BSA policy that excludes certain people on the basis that they are poor role models."

 

IF the truth be told, I'm not worried about those "people" for their role model status, I just don't trust them with boys.

[Adrianvs 10]

"In other other thread I showed you a dictionary definition of "hypocrisy" that fit my usage. Whether it is a public figure or someone posting on this board, when someone holds other people to a different standard than their own conduct, I call that person a hypocrite, unless they have openly (and credibly) renounced their past conduct. You can call the person whatever you'd like."

 

I'm sorry; I'me afraid that you misunderstood my intent. I didn't bring it up because I disapprove of your use of the word "hypocrisy." I just meant to remind everyone that the word has traditionally been used more broadly to include those whose action DOES correspond to their preaching. It would just be a matter of whether the teaching is honestly held. I concede that the common usage is almost entirely the one that you use. I only brought it up to begin with because most people don't think of it that way any more.

 

And it was a friendly barb to make sure that you weren't using "pretend virtue" (backed up by real action) in comparing yourself with another.

 

That's all...

[evmori 11]

Bob,

You never answered. What is your favorite music?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White 20]

I have posted before that I enjoy a wide variety of music. The difference between us being that I don't praise it from one side of my face and condemn it from the other side.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[evmori 11]

"I have posted before that I enjoy a wide variety of music. The difference between us being that I don't praise it from one side of my face and condemn it from the other side."

 

Your point being what? And where did I do what you posted? One of the finest men I know loved the Beatles music but didn't approve of their lifestyle. That man was my father.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn 61]

Ed I think your Dad was a cool neat old fellow and I nerver met him - I think.

Eamonn

[NJCubScouter 1389]

I think the whole discussion of "lifestyles" or musicians (and other artists) is sort of pointless. If someone wants to boycott artists based on their lifestyle, that is their right, but I prefer to focus on the art. As for the "role model" aspect, and I am mostly talking about drugs now... look, kids have many influences to choose from, some good, some bad. There is no way to shield them completely from bad role models. It is much more effective to teach them how to make the right choices.

 

And I also wonder, if we were to examine those who have produced various kinds of music, what kind of role models would we find. It almost goes without saying that if you like jazz, some of the artists you listen to were not models of temperance and probity. Even with classical music, I think you'd find some "lifestyle" issues as well, though it is somewhat different because some of the "substances" involved were not yet illegal at the time. And outside of music, artists in general have a way of not conforming to the strictest social standards. And you know what they say about Michelangelo. But it's ok to like his paintings even though he would not be considered a good role model for the values (allegedly) contained in the Scout Oath and Law.

 

But back to the Beatles, I just heard yesterday that an oncologist in New York City, who is (was?) something of a minor celebrity because he does radio ads for his hospital and its pioneering cancer treatments, has lost his job in a Beatles-related incident. It seems that he was George Harrison's doctor in the final stages of George's illness, and that shortly before George's death, the oncologist prevailed on him to autograph a guitar for him. George's family claims that he was taken advantage of in his weakened condition. I was sort of puzzled about this because nobody would begrudge asking someone for an autograph, though I guess it is in rather bad taste to make the request of someone who is dying. What makes this different is probably the value of the signed item. There are probably not very many guitars signed by one of the greatest guitar players in the world, and it becomes an instant "auction house" item. I don't know what it would sell for, but my guess would be in the tens of thousands, especially if it were dated. I guess for a doctor to do that is crossing some sort of line.

[evmori 11]

Eamonn,

Thanks. I resemble that remark.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

 

[kasane 10]

In today's age of celebrity marriages and divorces, Paul and Linda McCartney set an example. They were one of few celebrity couples to survive the pressure cooker life style of fame, and the strain this puts on a marriage. In their nearly 30 year marriage, they never spent a night apart, voluntarily. This came to an end in April of 1998, when Linda succumbed to breast cancer.

 

With Paul's recent remarriage and birth of a new child, I guess his practice of serial monogamy is going to get him drummed (pardon the pun) out of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KoreaScouter 13]

Way back in this thread, somebody nominated "Iron Man" as the worst rock song ever. Okay, the intro's corny, especially when you consider the Ozzy of TV-show fame singing(?) it. But, it's okay once you get past that. I'd like to nominate another song as WRSE: "Mr. Roboto" by Styx; in fact, that one song effectively killed their career.

 

KS