SR540Beaver 116 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I'm not set up to receive notifications. I don't like wading thru tons of e-mail messages. I just check the threads I'm on periodically. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 OutdoorThinker, yours came through correctly. SR540Beaver's notification was replicated and arrived before yours. How about mine? Delete key ready... BTW, SR540Beaver, what does your name mean? Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Pack ol' buddy, you know me! I used to be kwc57. I just completed Wood Badge course SR540 in the Beaver patrol. I asked the folks here at Scouter.com if I could change my name to celebrate my completion of the Wood Badge course work. Still have those pesky ticket items to complete. They were kind enough to change my screen name for me. They did such a good job that it actually changed the name for every post I've ever posted. I keep meaning to type (formerly kwc57) at the bottom of my posts for a period of time so folks like you will know who it is, but I keep forgetting. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 You know, I do remember when you announced that and I completely forgot. This is happening with alarming frequency now. But I have to confess something....no, I'll pass that on to you in a private message and you can reveal it if you want. Edited part: I just can't do it. I can't even tell you privately, sorry. I'm afraid it would offend you and that would be so unnecessary. Sorry. Try to forget I mentioned it.(This message has been edited by packsaddle) Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Pack, Pack, Pack, What are we going to do with you concerning your scout spirit? (To everyone else, I talked Pack into e-mailing his question to me.) Your comment was funny, but not 52 times. The webmaster has got to do some serious work on this posting mail repeatedly. No offense taken friend. A sense of humor is a very good thing. I must confess that I think of a mule everytime I see your handle. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I'm laughing, that's what my wife sees in me too - a mule, ugly and stubborn. Wait a minute, I just figured out the alternative you didn't mention. Hey! Well, that probably fits too. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 TwoCub, Denial is not a river in Egypt. I watched the event televised live how exactly do you think the image was slanted by the media. The place errupted in boos. The DNC leaders were on the stage and did nothing to regain order or decorum in respect to the flag if not their invited guests. The program continued live and no apology or admonisment took place. Do I expect the leader of an eevent to tell the participants when they are out of line? OF COURSE I DO! That's part of the responsibility that comes with leadership. Wouldn't you correct the behavior of a bunch of adults or youth who misbehaved during a ceremony at a scout meeting or during the presentation of the Flag? I would hope so. The numbers of people shouldn't matter, wrong is wrong. Did they aplogize to the scouts or the BSA. NO. How do I no that? I asked. I have met a number of scouters from the Boy Scout Division at national and I asked. There was no apology. So there are my facts Twocub. What can you offer in their defense? Don't get me wrong these party goers have a right to their opinion about the scouts and the flag. But that gives me the right to form my opinions about them based on their actions. My opinion of the leadership of the DNC and the participants at the convention? Rude, unpatriotic, cowardly. But I'm not in uniform right now so I can say that. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to post Share on other sites
cjmiam 10 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 SR540Beaver writes: No, we don't see conservatives suing the BSA. We do see them spending years and millions of dollars to overthrow a twice elected popular president. We do see them sue to determine who will be president in a closely contested election. We do see them initiate recalls to throw out elected officials. All power grabs due to not being able to accept the will of the people. Those are as much an assualt on our guiding principles as booing Boy Scouts. So I write: Are you talking about a guy that had sex with interns and committed perjury while in office? Yep, I wanted him fired. That would never be accepted in the business world. Why is politics different? Hmmm, thats funny, I thought Mr. Gore was trying to conduct a recount in only three of the most democratic counties? Was that the same election that the state supreme court knowingly ignored state election laws? Was that also the same election that democrats wanted to change rules in the middle of the game? Hmmm, something just doesnt seem right with all that. Yep, I think Id sue someone too. At least the U.S. Supreme Court in that case knew how to judge from the bench and not legislate from the bench. Recalls? Are you talking about the recall in California? Cause if you are, Im sure that you are aware that was done under California law. I think its even in their Constitution. The will of the people? You are joking right? The will of the people is exactly what the recall showed. Did you see Arnolds numbers? He blew everyone clear out of the water. Seems like the people spoke quite clearly. And no, those arent an assault on our guiding principles. These are examples of LEGAL methods to uphold the law and keep our country in the hands of the PEOPLE and protect our democracy. And far different from someone that should be a mature adult booing a kid. SR540Beaver also writes: It must really feel great to belong to a party that portrays people like my father who was a life long Democrat and Marine veteran of WWII as a traitor because of his party affiliation. How big it is of them to dishonor his service to his country that way. Maybe theyd like to come here to middle America and try calling my dad a traitor or would they be too afraid? So I write: Not sure where that came from. I never called your father a traitor, questioned his patriotism or anything of the sort? I dont think you can even imagine how much I respect and admire our veterans. We owe everything we have to them and God. However, if he left our soil and went to a foreign land when our fighting men and women are in harms way, and spoke unkindly about our commander and chief, I might have to reconsider. Yes, you guessed it, I do see the actions of Natalie very close to traitorous. I wonder what your dad would think about that if it happened during WWII. SR540Beaver writes: Ive heard some republicans say this isnt the party that they grew up with or that they believed in. They talk like its been hijacked. It has been hijacked by the neocons just as the democratic party was hijacked by the far-left. If thats true, fine take it back if they want to, otherwise they can always become an independent like I did as long as they dont cause a ruckus. So I must write: How many republicans have you heard say that? I must admit that I find that really amazing, `cause the Republican Party really hasnt strayed from its principles or changed. However, the Democratic Party appears to be quite lost. Id actually be interested in hearing some of their ideas, however, all they ever seem to do is attack others. Maybe if they would be a bit more positive and not so hateful all the time theyd be received a little better and not alienate their constituents. By the way, Id say the Republican Party is very strong and united with a leader that knows what keeping his word means. SR540Beaver writes: Neither side fully represents me or speaks for me. They have both become full of backbiters who waste this country's time spouting rhetoric. I prefer to weigh each candidate and issue on it's merits, judged by my personal values and then vote accordingly. Both sides have faults and both sides are hurting this country by their partisan activities. The democrats/liberals do not have a monopoly. So I write: Im not going to argue with you on this except for where you said its hurting America. I believe strongly in the two-party system. I believe strongly in public debate or rhetoric as you call it, however, that seems to have taken on a negative connotation and it really shouldnt. Differing opinions do not weaken our county; in fact that is what makes us strong. Partisan activities are supported by constituents. It is by the will of the people that our laws are made, elections happen, and our governing officials operate. This process does not hurt our country. Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 So there are my facts Twocub. What can you offer in their defense? I have nothing to prove, nothing to defend. You and CJ (and I'm not sure why you're hitching on to his wagon) are the ones who saw something on TV and are trying to extrapolate that onto the hearts and minds of 50 million people. I'm only pointing out the falacy of that premise that your "facts" aren't. For about third time in this thread, I'll note that I don't defend the the people who booed the Scouts. What they did was indefensible and reprehensible. But since that "fact" doesn't support your pre-conceived ideas about liberals, you just ignore it. Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 That should read, "I'm only pointing out the falacy of that premise AND that your "facts" aren't." Link to post Share on other sites
MarkNoel 10 Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 cjmiam writes: > So I write: Are you talking about a guy that had sex with interns and committed > perjury while in office? Yep, I wanted him fired. That would never be accepted in > the business world. Why is politics different? and then writes: > By the way, Id say the Republican Party is very strong and united with a leader that > knows what keeping his word means. Would that be the one who loudly proclaimed an immenent WMD threat from Iraq based on carefully selected evidence, or the one who claimed to abhor leaks and then didn't bother for two months to look into the leak from his own administration that burned the cover of a CIA operative (for spite, no less)? "In the business world," as you cite, I would imagine that deliberative falsifications on substantive policy issues and on national security issues where thousands of lives hang in the balance would be even less accepted than covering up an affair with your administrative assistant. So what's your justification for these two views? I'd like to hear this... YiS, -Mark Link to post Share on other sites
MarkNoel 10 Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 BW writes: > I watched the event televised live how exactly do you think the image was slanted > by the media. The place errupted in boos. The DNC leaders were on the stage and > did nothing to regain order or decorum in respect to the flag if not their invited > guests. Personally, I think that the image is slanted in your memory rather than in the media. As I recall, the place did not "erupt" in boos -- rather, there was a smattering coming from a small number of individuals in the crowd that was otherwise being very quiet and respectful -- as you would expect during a flag ceremony. DNC leaders didn't interrupt the flag ceremony because those few individuals who were booing stopped on their own, and probably as a result of elbows to the ribs. I can't speak to the issue of whether an apology was offered to the Scouts in question or not, but just because your friends at National didn't get one doesn't mean that one wasn't offered. Frankly, I think that you're simply looking to demonize the DNC. If this had happened at another venue, I imagine that you would be giving more benefit of the doubt to the organizers and participants rather than paint the entire group as "rude, unpatriotic, and cowardly" and then accuse them of engineering the whole thing in advance just to make some political statement at the expense of the boys in the color guard. At least admit that your own animus towards the DNC is coloring your perceptions and interpretations here. YiS, -Mark Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Mark, I don't think you are able to judge my message fairly due to your bias against my personal views. You missed the part where I said I do not hold this opinion on all democrats only those who participated in the event and those who are the supposed leaders of the event. I have never demonized any one or any group for their belifs. They have a right to express their opinion. I have a right to make judgements bades on their public behavior. HAd any group behaved in the same way I would make the same determination. The scouting program and the boys involved did not care what the ideology of the audience was. They were invited to present the nation's flag, and they came to do so as responsible citizens. It is unfortunate that the party goers did not share that same feeling of responsibility. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 CJ, I participate in several political forums where the rhetoric and invective really fly. I do not want to engage in that in this forum. I'll respond to part of your comments with this quote from Pat Buchanan in the NY Times on September 8, 2002. "The conservative movement has been hijacked and turned into a globalsit, interventionist, open borders ideology, which is not the conservative movement I grew up with." Buchanan got so fed up with the shift in the Republican party that he ended up leaving it to become an independent. No one can lay a claim that Buchanan is anything other than a staunch conservative. The kind that had always been around up until around 20 years ago. His is not a lone voice in the wilderness. There are a number of prominent Republicans and conservatives who feel the same way he does. You can read more of Buchanan's thoughts at his magazine's website www.amconmag.com. The neocon movement that has taken control of the Republican party grew out of a liberal movement rom the 70's. That is why we are seeing policies such as telling other nations how to govern (bringing democracy to the Mid-East) that are very similar to the liberals policies of big government telling the citizens what is best for them. Think about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 TwoCub where are you getting these ideas. Show me one trace of evidence that I have "hooked up with CJ. If yoiu read my post I even said that just because he agreed with something I said doesNOT mean I agree with him and CJ was good enough to apologize for for a statement that appeared we were in agreement. Where did I say anything about liberals? NOWHERE. I have never made a distinction that all democrats are liberal, I do not believe that to be true and so I NEVER made a comment in this discussion about liberals I do not mind you disagreeing with me but these false statements from you need to end. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
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