BSA as a right-wing political organization?

[Bob White 20]

Just for the record just because CJ agreed with me does not mean we are in agreement. I see no reason that conservative or liberals, Republicans or Democrats, white collar worker or blue collar workers cannot share the values of scouting.

 

Bob White

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"So Fog are you saying that the end doesn't justify the means? Or just not in this situation?"

 

Can a moral end ever justify an immoral means of reaching that end?

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"Fog, forgive me, I am in a fog, what are we arguing about again, I agree with your last post"

 

I'm not sure.

[cjmiam 10]

Bob, sorry if it appeared like I was continuing joint thoughts. I should have put a line there or something. I just really appreciated how you fairly evaluated the situation.

 

---------------------

 

twocubdad,

 

I wasnt saying that all democrats necessarily have these attributes, but that many organizations that make up the DNCs supporting cast seem to. And once again, we dont see the conservatives or right-wingers suing the BSA all over the country now do we?

 

It must really feel great to belong to a political party that boos children. And no it wasnt symbolic, but it did show the current DNCs true colors and hatred towards the BSA and everyone with beliefs different from theirs for that matter. How big it was of them to boo kids. Maybe theyd like to come here to rural America and try booing my Scouts or would they be too afraid?

 

Ive heard some democrats say this isnt the party that they grew up with or that they believed in. They talk like its been hijacked. If that true, fine take it back if you want to, otherwise you can always come over to the other side as long as you dont cause a ruckus

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

CJ,

 

No, we don't see conservatives suing the BSA. We do see them spending years and millions of dollars to overthrow a twice elected popular president. We do see them sue to determine who will be president in a closely contested election. We do see them initiate recalls to throw out elected officials. All power grabs due to not being able to accept the will of the people. Those are as much an assualt on our guiding principles as booing Boy Scouts.

 

It must really feel great to belong to a party that portrays people like my father who was a life long Democrat and Marine veteran of WWII as a traitor because of his party affiliation. How big it is of them to dishonor his service to his country that way. Maybe theyd like to come here to middle America and try calling my dad a traitor or would they be too afraid?

 

Ive heard some republicans say this isnt the party that they grew up with or that they believed in. They talk like its been hijacked. It has been hijacked by the neocons just as the democratic party was hijacked by the far-left. If thats true, fine take it back if they want to, otherwise they can always become an independent like I did as long as they dont cause a ruckus.

 

Neither side fully represents me or speaks for me. They have both become full of backbiters who waste this country's time spouting rhetoric. I prefer to weigh each candidate and issue on it's merits, judged by my personal values and then vote accordingly. Both sides have faults and both sides are hurting this country by their partisan activities. The democrats/liberals do not have a monopoly.

[Twocubdad 665]

"It must really feel great to belong to a political party that boos children."

 

That's precisely the kind of garbage I'm talking about. Your and your talk-radio wannabes buddies love to find some straw man to set as an example of all "liberals" so you can knock it over. Then, as soon as someone challenges you on it, you backpedal, saying "oh, I didn't mean ALL Democrats think that way." Well until some challenges it, you sure don't mind leaving that garbage out there.

 

Do you really think the DNC made a conscious decision to invite the Scouts to the convention just so they could be booed? But of course that's a whole lot more fun and makes much better political hay that to acknowledge that most Democrats were embarassed and ashamed of the boorish behavior of a few nuts.

 

But since we're rolling in the mud, answer me this: How does it feel to belong to a political party whose top leadership wishes that an unrepentant segregationist had been elected president? And no it wasnt symbolic, but it did show the current RNCs true colors and hatred towards minorities and everyone with beliefs different from theirs for that matter. How big it was of them to support a segregationist for president? Maybe theyd like to come here to an inner city neightborhood and spout that racist tripe or would they be too afraid?

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[Fat Old Guy 11]

" We do see them spending years and millions of dollars to overthrow a twice elected popular president."

 

I must have been out of the country when this happened or maybe you're talking about Argentina.

[Bob White 20]

Beaver, This twice elected popular president you speak of that an opposing party tried to overthrow...are you talking about Reagan or the guy who was having illicit sex in the Oval Office with an intern?

 

If you are looking for saints, quit looking at politics, that's not where they hang out. Everything you condemn the republicans of you can find an identical incident in the demoratic party. 0r do you not believe that there has ever been a disgruntled democrat?

 

I do want to point out that hundreds of elections are recouted each year and that the recall in California was done legally, and judging by the say of the voters, was warranted. Democrats have endorsed recall votes as well, this is just the first time for a Govenor.

 

So be careful throwing stones in the glass house of politics.

 

Some how I do not equate a legal recall with ambushing children. But that's just me.

 

Bob White

[Bob White 20]

"Do you really think the DNC made a conscious decision to invite the Scouts to the convention just so they could be booed?"

 

YES, that is exactly what I think. If you had watch the event you would think so to. There was no effort made by party or convention leaders to stop it, there was no admonishment of the conventioneers for their disgusting behaviour, there was no apology given the Scouts in attendance or to the BSA.

 

I absolutely believe this was a politically motivated ambush of children in order to endear the party to a social minority.

 

Bob White

[Twocubdad 665]

Maybe that works for a San Francisco precinct meet during primary season, but you're nuts if you think that's the image a national party wants protrayed during one of their few prime-time national broadcasts.

 

In your neck of the woods, it is apparently common for folks to rush the stage and stop the proceedings and/or contradict the opinions of the scheduled speaker. But it doesn't happen much around here. I don't know if I would attribute it to a lack of conviction or maybe just courtesy. Then again it could just be tight security.

[SR540Beaver 116]

BW,

 

Go back and reread my post. I do believe you are making my point for me. The point being that those who are throwing stones at democrats/liberals are just as quilty of dirty politics as those they accuse. There is plenty of blame to go around for both sides. I don't care how many times Hannity says, "wrong side of history" or Coulter says, "democrats are traitors to America", my WWII USMC dad does not fit their preconcieved political definition of him! Like I said, I'm an independent because I am disgusted with the actions or inactions of both parties. They both care more about scoring political points like two spoiled brats than they care about governing the country.

 

I'm just calling a spade a spade. I don't have a dog in this fight over which president was better or who did more wrong than the other. Yes, Clinton is an adulterer and a scum. He did a good enough job that he was elected twice even in the midst of a no holds barred fight to defeat him. That fight started long before anyone even knew Monica existed. In the final analysis of all those millions of dollars and years, lying about his private sexual life was the only thing they could hang on him. I am no prouder of Reagan and the Iran/Contra scandel. His administration willingly broke the law and attempted to cover it up. How do you justify selling arms to a terrorist nation that just prior to his administration had held hostages for as long as they did? To say we did it to fight communism does not make it right. Would you urge a scout to knowingly break a law because it will serve your cause? Two wrongs do not make a right.

 

Look Americans are Americans. They get up in the morning and put their pants on and go to work. They love and support their families. They pay their taxes. They vote. They go to church. They love their country. About half of those Americans are democrats/liberals and the other half is republicans/conservative. In the end, they are all Americans and proud of their nation.

[Bob White 20]

TwoCub

 

Here are the facts

1 At the DNC's National presidential convention which was televised on network TV the assemly BOO'd the Boy Scout Honor Guard as they presented the Flag of the United States of America.

 

2 No effort was made to regain decorum

 

3 No reprimand was given for what was a cowardly and distasteful act not only to the children involved but in respect to our country's flag.

 

4 No apology was given to the scouts involved, their leaders, or the BSA.

 

Those are the facts.

 

Now, let's hear any evidence, not opinion, to support a belief that this was not an orchestrated demonstration.

 

Bob White

[Twocubdad 665]

Here are the facts

 

1 At the DNC's National presidential convention which was televised on network TV the assemly BOO'd the Boy Scout Honor Guard as they presented the Flag of the United States of America.

 

The assembly? You've polled all those in attendance and know that all -- or even a majority of those in attendence booed the Scouts. Of course, you could just rely on the TV networks to show a balanced picture of those respectfully standing with their hand over their hearts, not just the trouble makers.

 

2 No effort was made to regain decorum

 

And you have knowledge of what was or wasn't done behind the scenes because......?

 

3 No reprimand was given for what was a cowardly and distasteful act not only to the children involved but in respect to our country's flag.

 

Again, you know this how? You're privy to all the communication between the DNC and the various state committes, right? Do you really expect a political party, in the middle of a presidential campaign to rub salt in the wound and ensure that an embarrassing episode remains in the spotlight by publicly repremanding it's own delegates? Of course if the Republicans made a similar gaff -- say, denying a black delegate admittance to the convention because he looked "suspicious" -- the RNC would fall on it's sword and give the error top play for the next few weeks.

 

4 No apology was given to the scouts involved, their leaders, or the BSA.

 

My recollection was that an apology was issued, but frankly it wasn't something I felt a need to collect documentation on at the time. I'm sure you have a copy of the apology that wasn't issued.

 

Those are the facts.

 

Facts? There's not a fact anywhere near here. Those are simply your opinions based on 90-seconds of TV and a lot of conjecture. Neither of has any hard information one way or the other. But you and CJ are the ones making the accusations. Where is your proof? Where are the document showing that the DNC orchestrated the event as you claim?

 

Don't get me wrong. The behavior of those who booed the Scouts was reprehensible. And the DNC handlers who didn't predict to outcome were morons.

 

But to try and paint all Democrats or liberals with that same brush is offensive to the million of patriotic American who consider themselves to be members of those two groups. It's just as offensive as claiming all Republicans are racists because Trent Lott can't keep his foot out of his mouth or because a handful of kooks manage to get David Duke's name on a ballot.

(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[packsaddle 753]

Did anyone else just get a wazillion notifications of a reply by Bob White?

 

Edited part: In the interest of accuracy, a wazillion is converted to precisely 55 notifications within one minute. Fast Bob, nice...or has my ISP just been attacked by the forum?(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[OutdoorThinker 10]

PackSaddle:

 

I got what I would consider nearly a gazillion notifications of the last few posts. Do you think there's anything we can do to fix that?