acco40 95 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 First a little background ... In these times of tight budget, our school district has decided that to use any classroom in the school will cost you $25/evening. In the past, parents of the school had made arrangements (checked with teacher, got principals approval, formally scheduled room, cleaned it up when finished, etc.) to use available classrooms (after hours) for Girl Scout meetings and Cub Scout den meetings. No charge was levied on the users. Now, the school district (not the individual schools) have lumped the non-profits (BSA & Girl Scouts) into the same lot as adult aerobics classes, men's basketball, etc. Neither the elementary school (K-5) nor the PTA is the CO for a unit. One of the Packs that I am commissioner for is chartered by Catholic Church (of which I am a parishioner). They have always (past 10 years or so) held their monthly pack meetings at the church. Now it seems that many organizations are trying to use individual rooms for dens meetings at the church. The church has balked at this. Now, I believe that the school and the church has every right to do what they are doing, although especially for the school I think it is penny wise and pound (euro?) foolish. One of the scout leaders went to the church today to schedule the pack meetings for the year (Sept - Jun). The secretary said no. The Scouter reiterated that it was not for the den meetings but for the pack meeting that they have supported for years. Anyway, the church said that they needed a background check for all of the parents in the pack before they would grant use of the church. Now, the scouter said all of the Scout Leaders have had background checks (and ironicly were approved by the church) but not all parents. The Scout Leader is furious. Now, I'm guessing it that it is a simple misunderstanding. I'm going to but on my uniform and meet with the CO IH soon and discuss the situation in a friendly manner. I'm guessing that if the church (CO) really wanted a background check of ALL parents of the pack they are within their right. Comments? Link to post Share on other sites
eisely 13 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Hopefully the church secretary's demand was made out of ignorance. It is hard for me to imagine any church asking for background checks on its adult members. Background checks for leaders of youth groups such as scouts are one thing, but all the parents? This makes no sense. I can understand how the catholic church is up tight about youth activities in light of the scandals in some areas of the country, but this is a serious over reaction. Possibly the fevered brain of some lawyer somewhere came up with this idea. Link to post Share on other sites
LovetoCamp 9 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Our Venturing Crew is chartered by our American Legion Post. We are extremely happy being associated with such a fabulous organization. I can't even imagine having to deal with a school or church bureacracy. I've witnessed our local troop having to deal with a minister who was having a bad day. Not good. The Vets are just super accomodating and as they are getting older they have asked the Crew for more help with Post things, ie moving furniture, painting, sweeping the parking lot. Happy Happy Happy with our CO. Pounder Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Could be not all the parents of Cub Scouts are chuch members, perhaps an Insurance Thing? Anyway, as a private organization it would appear the church is free to associate with whoever it wants under any conditions it wishes followed. Link to post Share on other sites
scoutldr 732 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 The local Roman Catholic church will not allow scouts the use of their building...not for meetings, not for adult-only training sessions. They don't want anything to do with BSA, no way, no how. That's the parish priest's decision, who apparently is empowered to make such decisions. The DE has tried for years to get units chartered there...they won't even meet with him. A parishioner whom I know explained that the church does, indeed, require criminal background checks for everyone who comes in contact with youth...sunday school teachers, CCD teachers, youth group advisors, etc. To avoid imposing that requirement on "outsiders", they simply won't allow them access. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Wow! Backround checks on all the parents!! Seems a little extreme to me. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the CO by signing the charter required to give the unit a place to hold at least monthly meetings? Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 I believe you are on the right path Acco40. Go have a calm conversation with the IH and the COR. Having worked with several Catholic sponsored units I can tell you my experiences have been very positive. Yes, Catholic church requires all adult volunteers who are in contact with youth to be fingerprinted and take one of the three youth protection programs offered by the church (in addition to the BSA screening and YP). I wish all COs were as cautious. None however have required all the parents to to so as well. That would be the equivalent of having all the CCD (religious education) student's parents being screened, and that is not required or done. But you cannot expect the office staff to understand pack or troop organizational structure. As far as the public school lumping all charitable organizations together...if they are not a chartering organization I can see why they would do that. You are not their scout unit...you are just a scout unit. I would expect them to treat you as any other outside activity. But the CO just needs to be reminded that you are their unit not a unit that uses their facilities. If you have a good relationship with your DE take them in with, better yet a member of the unit that is a known member of the church. I'm sure things will work out fine, Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to post Share on other sites
silver-shark 10 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Hi Ed, Yes they are supposed to provide a meeting place for the unit, BUT, they don't have to let just anyone into that unit. Unlike the CCD kids, there may be parents and youths that are not parishoners there. It seems that they would be within their rights to ask for this for those non-parishoners. I know that many times I have been at Cub Scout activities even though I am not registered with the Pack or a member of the church that is the CO. YIS Kris(This message has been edited by silver-shark) Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 silver, Thanks. I agree the CO is within their right to ask what they are asking for. It seems they are maybe running a little scared for some reason. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted August 27, 2003 Author Share Posted August 27, 2003 Bob, Your statement, "Yes, Catholic church requires all adult volunteers who are in contact with youth to be fingerprinted and take one of the three youth protection programs offered by the church (in addition to the BSA screening and YP)", did you mean a local Catholic church or The Roman Catholic Church? The church (not the Church) has been the CO for many years of the Pack and Troop that I serve as UC. THey have never done background checks or fingerprinting to my knowledge before. Update: Just talked on the phone with the IH of the CO. The Archdiocese has mandated that all adults who come into contact with youth have a background check. I'm going to pick up the form tomorrow. I don't have a problem with it. However, some individuals get defensive with background checks. Now, at the church, they have interpreted this new policy to mean all parents attending the Pack meeting, not just the Pack leadership. I wonder if adult parishioners attending mass, where youth are present, are required to have a background check? The lawyers must be loving it!(This message has been edited by acco40) Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster7 11 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 acco40, That was my first reaction...I would be surprised if that applied to the entire Roman Catholic Church as opposed to a diocese or a local church. But then again, given their problems as of late, maybe I shouldn't be surprised. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 It is my understanding, having spoken with the priest who is the Chaplain for Catholic Scouting and sits on the National Council for Catholic Scouting that every Roman Catholic diocese in the U.S. is now required to finger print every adult working directly with youth in the Church. I have worked with several troops in Roman Catholic churches in more than a few dioceses and every one was required to comply with this directive, as well as the youth protection. I agree that some adults are not comfortable with this process. But as a COR or IH I would be uncomfortable with a youth leader who would not comply. The safety of the children is more important than the individual comfort of any adult. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Our Roman Catholic church has been the CO for our Pack for over 50 years and our Troop for over 75 years. We also have a Girl Scout Troop in every grade from K thru 8. Not all of our CS, BS or GS's are members of the church or school. We have a meeting room specifically for Scouting and room to store all of our various Troops and Dens stuff. Our church, and all of its various organizations, have been very supportive of Scouting. None of the volunteers in any of the parish organizations or the school have ever been asked to be fingerprinted or had background checks. Nor have we been asked to do youth protection training. School started this week and scout meetings are also starting and still no one has been asked to submit to background checks. I can't think where the parish would find the money to pay for fingerprinting and complete background checks of every adult. As for the public schools charging for meeting space, this is happening all over the country. It seems to be strictly a school district decision. I know that to use any of our local schools facilites on weekends costs about $200. This covers electric, heat, janitors & security. As a result, many of our GS troops meet in homes. Luckly, if needed, I can work with our parish secretary to find free time in our school/parish hall for Scouting stuff.(This message has been edited by ScoutNut) Link to post Share on other sites
hops_scout 9 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 I believe our school has a policy that if it is for a non profit organization, it is free or a small fee. And, they have to have a school rep present the whole time. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Just as it takes new information in the BSA to work it's way through the information and application phases over a nationwide program the same is tru for other organizations our size such as the Catholic church. I think that within a years time you will find most every parish following the mandate. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
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