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Scoutldr, I had assumed that the man of steele had gotten the joke and was making his own joke.


Where do I send your box of cigars for being the first person in 15 years to get that joke?


Now for the pedantic part :-). A petard is not a spear, it is a small explosive device used for breaching walls (the origin of the word comes from the French for "fart"). As it was explained to me by a combat engineer, they were employed by throwing a rope over something and hoisting it into position, hopefully before it exploded. However, if you screwed up, the petard would pull you into the air and blow up with you dangling over it. I don't know how accurate that description is but it sounds good.



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Since Willie wrote for the masses, I'd be willing to bet that the phrase was in use long before Hamlet was penned. Unfortunately, I don't have access to all of my resources right now. However, I did find something interesting at http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/edu/2002/04/23/stories/2002042300030101.htm


It claims that being "hoisted" by a petard was being blown off your feet because you didn't get away fast enough. It jives with Will in that it would be pretty funny back then to watch an "expert" get blasted off his feet because he miscalculated. I'll have to see if I can track down my engineer buddy and tell him this.


The things we learn at 1 AM.

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Sorry to disappoint, Sctldr, but the Man of Steele (soon to be called Remmington by someone) had 60 hours of college English that netted him a minor in Literature. The major was social science and business, but the GPA was only 3.0 -- not enough for a double major.


In spite of my only slightly above average gpa, I have to admit that I did get the joke.


Thanks, Fat Old Guy, for the benefit of the doubt.



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Next time you go to your dentist ask what PPO's they belong to. Then go on the internet; look up that particular PPO and buy membership for your family for 1 year for approximately $ 149.00. Each procedure is approximately 1/2 the cost; it can be used in conjunction with your insurance and you can have pre-existing conditions and it doesn't matter.

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I started to just let this pass. But I can't. I lived in WV for 6 years and I currently commute to WV to work. Sure I have heard all the jokes about WV. I am just a little disappointed by several posters here that I respected, and not surprised by some of the others.




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" Medical services is one of the few commodities that we purchase upfront without knowing the price. The main cause is insurance."


I've worked in insurance for 20+ years. Insurance really isn't the main cause. The main cause(s) are a lack of understanding by patients that they are consumers, and need to be responsible in their purchase of health and dental care. Another cause is the rising number of law suits, (some are appropriate, some aren't) that are forcing practitioners to pay for sky rocketing malpractice coverage.


FOG - if this was an initial visit, along with the extractions, your surgeon is charging a fee to set up files that should contain completed forms with medical history. X-rays also should have been taken. There is a fee for the x-rays, but their review is usually part of the office visit fee. The information gathered on the office forms and the x-rays should have been reviewed by the oral surgeon prior to the extractions. Under American Dental Association guidelines the oral surgeon has the right to charge for this, and given our sue happy society, his/her malpractice carrier would expect that review.


Anyway, I'm not saying that medical or dental providers are always in the right - they're not, but the real problem is the lack of consumer responsibility. That includes following doctors orders, finishing rx's, asking about unusual charges, asking about treatments that are being suggested, asking about alternatives... and a lot more!



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"Under American Dental Association guidelines the oral surgeon has the right to charge for this"


Of course, they'd be idiots to say that they couldn't.


Gotta love the way that doctors and lawyers break everything out on their bills.


Can you imagine if plumbers did that?


Turned off water $25

Looked in sink $25

Sent helper to get wrench $15

Used wrench $20






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A note about the waivers they have you sign if you refuse treatment:

My brother's a dentist. He has been sued when a patient refused his recommended treatment and the condition spread into the jaw and became life-threatening. The patient certainly had the right to refuse treatment, but that little piece of paper was the only proof my brother had that he had correctly diagnosed the problem and treatment. Fortunately the courts decided the patient had assumed responsibility for their own problem when they refused their doctor's treatment.


I don't blame the insurance companies - they're in business to make money and have competition to keep rates as low as they can. Instead take a look at the legal system with lawyers who are motivated by getting a percentage piece of the winnings. The larger the settlement, the larger the paycheck. We're one of the only countries in the world that allows this payment scheme.

Bigger lawsuits --> more insurance payments --> higher insurance premiums paid by dentists --> higher cost to you. And more CYA procedures by dentists who don't want to get sued because they neglected to recommend treatment for something you may or may not have. If they're not sure, they have to recommend it anyway so you (and your lawyers) don't come looking for them in 6 months.

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