GS Gold vs BS Eagle

[littlebillie 10]

Even if you COULD decide which is theoretically more difficult, then you have the whole issue of individual differences. Some boys are going to have a much tougher time with swimming or whatever, than others. I am not conversant with the GSUSA requirements, but I'd have to guess the same thought applies.

 

So once y'all finish talking this around the lake and even if you DO end up deciding this horse has more teeth than that one - then someone's gotta go look in the horse's mouth, which would probably be getting a bunch of kids together to work on BOTH badges regardless of gender or organizational affiliation, the survey attitudes, measure rates of failure, conduct post-completion interviews.... and in the long run, will it really be worth it? You might pluck the petals off a rose to understand it, but in the long run, you end up with a pile of compost, and not a rose.

 

MOST INTERESTING question raised so far was from the comments "Our new DE has earned the GS Gold Award. She also worked at hte BSA camp at her home council. One topic we had over coffee was should the BSA allow a knot to show that they had earned it." And based on the apparent and publically understood differences between the 2 organizations official policies on membership (I say it this way simply because I personally think they're a lot closer together on paper than most people think - just different spins...), my guess'd be, it ain't gonna happen. Since the public sees the GSUSA as atheist- and gay-approving, how COULD the BSA allow a GSUSA-related know on the uniform? That'd be like authorizing the UU religious award, at least that's how it looks from the cheap seats!

 

And regardless of what the actual differences might be, there's the principle of allowing the replacement of "God" by the girls that the boys won't accept - same result.

 

just a perspective...

[Fat Old Guy 11]

That dog's still in the kennel.

 

Gold Stars indicate a very high honor as any "Gold Star Mother" tell you.

 

BTW, the Victoria Cross is gold www.chapter-one.com/vc/images/site/n_vcbig.jpg(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

[OldGreyEagle 5]

FOG, lets try to keep this in perspective. I offred an explanation as to why Eagle palms go bronze, gold, silver and Venture awards go gold then silver with silver being the highest. I have no desire to disparage any "gold star" mother or debase any military or other award that is gold in color and/or composition.

 

I remember reading somewhere placing Silver above Gold started in the Roman Army. Can the dogs be put to sleep, or at least to rest?

 

[KoreaScouter 13]

In my opinion, both demonstrate the ability of a young person to set goals and see them through to completion, which requires a focus, dedication, and commitment that is all too rare. I agree with those who say that trying to compare the relative difficulty of the two is pointless.

 

As a side note, my 10-year old Junior Girl Scout daughter earned her GS Bronze Award in June. I can tell you from firsthand experience with both programs, the planning, effort, and communtiy service she had to put in for that Bronze Award, as a ten-year-old, far exceed what we ask of our 2nd Year Webelos Scouts to earn their AOL...my observation.

 

KS

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"FOG, lets try to keep this in perspective. I offred an explanation as to why Eagle palms go bronze, gold, silver and Venture awards go gold then silver with silver being the highest."

 

I then disputed and refuted your explanation. Explanations like yours, without anything to back them up are how myths get started such as "one year to complete a merit badge."

[Fat Old Guy 11]

" I can tell you from firsthand experience with both programs, the planning, effort, and communtiy service she had to put in for that Bronze Award, as a ten-year-old, far exceed what we ask of our 2nd Year Webelos Scouts to earn their AOL...my observation. "

 

It doesn't surprise me considering what I've observed by having one of each type of child. When my daughter goes camping, she gets the official list of what to take and goes through it meticulously, making sure that she has everything. My son goes through his list and doesn't pack half the stuff because "I didn't know where it was and I didn't want to waste time looking."

[SagerScout 10]

Dsteele - thanks for the positive feedback, I'm happy to be of some help.

 

FOG - I personally have two boys and one girl, and both boys TOGETHER do not have half the organizational ability of the girl. Also not half the ability to delay gratification, half the ability to plan their work and work their plan.... They are both fine young men and I couldn't be prouder of them, but elaborate systems must be put in place in order for them to get simple things done. The girl just does them.

 

Same household, same parents, same discipline plans .... different children.

 

Oddly, my sons both earned AOL and the girl opted not to go bronze as a Junior. She just looked at it and said "looks like too much work" and blew it off. Silver is still on the table but she's not pushing for it. But she's so used to excelling at school that I don't think she feels the need for additional recognitions. Her biggest goal is to make the 8th grade volleyball team; she takes her A-B honor roll report card for granted.

 

That said, I have met several girls that are far closer in nature to my boys than to my daughter, and have met some boys from other families that are more like my daughter than my sons. So I don't think it's ALL gender linked. Plus, I'm female and I have the procrastination gene and the distracted-from-the-task gene too. You can tell, because I'm writing this when I should be working. Fortunately I work for myself so the boss is pretty easy on me.

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

lets see FOG, what are we disputing? We KNOW the order of palms is Bronze, Gold and Silver with silver being the highest. We KNOW that the Venturing awards contain a Gold and SIlver with Silver the highest.

 

I say it comes from Roman times, you say you refuted it, I didnt see that in any of your postings, but go ahead beleive you did. How does a comment about trivia from ancient Rome get on par with the length of time merit badge's can be worked on?

 

 

[Bob White 20]

If I have the timeline correct, and I think I do...

OGE suggested the Silver Palm might come from the military and offered as an example that the silver star is above a bronze star and another poster reminded us that a silver oakleaf is higher than the gold oakleaf.

 

FOG countered that OGE got a bad deal on a dog because the Silver Palm came along before the silver star.

 

Bob White then reported that FOG was incorrect about his dates and the silver star predates the eagle palms by nine years.

 

Fog ignores the truth and switches the topic to Gold Mther Stars which has nothing to do with silver star over bronze or silver oakleaves over bronze.

 

FOG then slaps OGEs hand for spreading myths when in fact it was Fog that shared the erroneous info. His dog may not hunt but it sure can tap dance.

 

The BSA uses silver for the highest award because the Eagle award was made of silver. It costs less than gold as precious metals go and the BSA could afford silver. When palms were introduced they followed the military with bronze at the beginning and silver at the end, gold was chosen for the center. All of BSA's highest awards have been silver. Silver Beaver,Silver Buffalo, Silver Fawn, Silver Antelope, Eagle, Silver Palm.

 

But the Gold Mother's Star is still gold and still totally unrelated to the order of Eagle palms.

 

Now everybody back up, cause I bet somebody's dog is probably gettin' ready to do some dancin again.

 

Bob White

[ASM7 10]

Well, I thought I'd get my feet a little wet on this one. Sorry about being away for awhile but I had a week at Philmont training center and a week sick and a week trying to catch up with work.

I think that both the Gold Award and Eagle Award are the highest awards each scout can achieve and each should be revered.

If you earned a religious award as a youth, you can wear the knot as an adult. It's an award of the Church and not BSA, GSUSA, Campfire, or 4-H.

I had a Eagle scout and Venturer on staff at Philmont tell me that Silver was always a higher rank in the military because when all the ranks were developed, the world was on the silver standard.

I agree with some of you that both the Gold Award and the Eagle Award should not be compared, but the two awards have similarities if you look at just the requirements for each separately. But from what I have learned is that a girl can start and complete the Gold Award with only maybe a year in GSUSA. The Eagle Award cannot be obtained without Tenderfoot,Second Class, First Class, Star, Life, 21 merit badges, a lot of service projects and leadership positions. That's probably the only difference that you can tell those who just have to compare.

[Fat Old Guy 11]

" silver oakleaves over bronze. "

 

In all my time in the Navy, I never saw any bronze oakleaves.

 

"When palms were introduced they followed the military with bronze at the beginning and silver at the end, gold was chosen for the center."

 

Still trying to figure out how you came to the conclusion that the military considers silver to be the highest award.

 

Can you cite an authorative source for your assertions?

 

 

[Fat Old Guy 11]

" had a Eagle scout and Venturer on staff at Philmont tell me that Silver was always a higher rank in the military because when all the ranks were developed, the world was on the silver standard. "

 

Too bad that you can't direct that Eagle to https://www.perscom.army.mil/tagd/tioh/ROTC%20Misc%20NGB%20page/Silver%20and%20Gold%20Insignia.htm

 

 

[acco40 95]

Nice post FOG but I'm not sure of the source. Believing everything that is posted on the www is frought with risk (i.e. Bob Hope is dead).

 

While I do not doubt the basic "facts" as presented in the article, I've been told by many West Point grads that when they teach heraldry at the academy, they emphasize the historic basis of why silver is considered of more value (symbolizes purity, honor, truth, etc.). Golds symbolic value has traditionally been wealth.

[acco40 95]

Nice post FOG but I'm not sure of the source. Believing everything that is posted on the www is frought with risk (i.e. Bob Hope is dead).

 

While I do not doubt the basic "facts" as presented in the article, I've been told by many West Point grads that when they teach heraldry at the academy, they emphasize the historic basis of why silver is considered of more value (symbolizes purity, honor, truth, etc.). Golds symbolic value has traditionally been wealth.

 

Now, why do district epaulets come in silver and national in gold? Simple, becasue the district volunteers are worth more!

[Twocubdad 665]

I remeber reading an explaination of this when I was a Scout. I thought it was in my old Handbook, but I can't find it. What I remember was along the lines of what Acco just wrote.

 

It's also worth noting that the adult awards for distinguished service -- antelope, buffalo and beaver -- are all silver.