Fat Old Guy 11 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 "Any other technicalities in my post? " You have a misplaced comma. I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader. :-) Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I found the misplaced comma!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did I win? Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Correctness of all sorts has gone to the point of insanity. About 15 years ago a fellow joined my company and it turned out that he was still involved with a lawsuit against his old company. No, he wasn't suing his previous employer, he was one of the people who were the cause of the company being sued. It seems that there was one woman in an office of about ten men. Most men are guys (as defined by Dave Barry) and these were no different and enjoyed the occasional off-color joke. However, out of deference to the lone woman, they made a point of keeping it clean while she was around. Well, that wasn't good enough. One day, our heroine is walking down the hallway and hears voices from the mens' room so she stops to listen (this she freely admits), much to her surprise a fellow was telling an off color story so she runs to the boss to complain. He asks why she was listening at the door to the mens' room. She says that she couldn't help it. He asks if the men were shouting which they weren't. He asks if they called her name which they didn't. The boss says that he's not going to restrict what goes on in the mens room. Bam! Lawsuit time. I once had a co-worker who was very sensitive to racial issues so he filed a complaint against a Chinese co-worker for referring to himself as a "Chink." It's a strange world that we live in. Link to post Share on other sites
NJCubScouter 1389 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Someone asked for a "real lawyer." Acco asks: If the "state" presses charges, why do police officers ask citizens if "they would like to press charges?" Rooster says: Theory #2 - Perhaps the intent behind that question is, if charges are pressed, "Are you willing to cooperate with the prosecution?" It's probably a waste of time and money (for the state), if the purported victim gets on the stand and states something to the affect, "No he wasn't assaulting me. We always goof around like that." Rooster, you are on the right track though only partially correct. The phrase "pressing charges" is not a technical legal term, but it usually refers to either signing a "complaint" (the terminology may vary from state to state) or providing the police with evidence that the police may use to issue their own complaint. The initiation of a prosecution (whether by summons, arrest warrant or other procedural means) requires a finding of "probable cause" to believe that a crime has been committed and that the person in question has committed it. When a police officer witnesses a crime, or personally gathers the evidence that creates the "probable cause," then the police officer him/herself signs the complaint, and the summons or warrant is issued based on that complaint. There is no issue of whether to "press charges" or not, because the police officer him/herself essentially does so by deciding to sign the complaint. When, however, the only witness to a crime is a citizen (often the victim), then that person has to sign the complaint, or at least make a statement to the police so the police can sign the complaint, otherwise there can be no prosecution. That act of signing the complaint or providing the necessary information is what is usually called "pressing charges." (I hear someone asking, what if nobody (at least nobody who can testify, other than the criminal) actually sees the crime being committed? This happens all the time in murder cases, where the victim is obviously unavailable to sign anything. What happens is, Witness A finds John's dead body, Witness B (the county medical examiner) says John died of gunshot wounds, Witness C finds the gun, Witness D (a police officer) dusts the gun for prints, Witness E (the lab supervisor) matches the prints up to Charlie. If Charlie wants to make everybody's life easier, there will also be a Witness F who says that Charlie told him last week that he was going to kill John, and or a Witness G (hotel desk clerk) who can show in his records that Charlie used John's credit card (after the body was found) to book a room. Put all these things together, and the police have probable cause to charge Charlie with the murder, even though no single individual saw enough to prosecute Charlie. Nobody needs to "press charges," though that is in effect what the lead investigating officer, who has collected statements from Witnesses A through G, does when he signs the complaint.) A long-winded answer, but hey, what do you expect from a "real lawyer"? Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Thank you NJCubScouter. Link to post Share on other sites
NJCubScouter 1389 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 You're welcome. I guess I should add, just to be clear, that what I am talking about is what is necessary to START the prosecution. "Probable cause" is enough to make an arrest, get an indictment, require the accused to post bail, or in some cases, confine the person without bail. To get a conviction requires more than that, and as should be familiar to every TV viewer, it is proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. In my earlier example, the prosecutor could have Witnesses A through G or A through Z and still not get a conviction, if it turns out that critical witnesses are lying, or didn't actually see what they thought they saw, or the accused has an alibi... or the glove doesn't fit, or the blood would have had to soak through the person's leg to get to the other side of the sock, or the blood wasn't on the gate when it should have been but mysteriously appeared there later. (Get it?) Or whatever. So you can have all the charges pressed in the world and still not be able to prove guilt. Link to post Share on other sites
berkshirescouter 11 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 The real question is will real lawyers stay at a Holiday Inn Express Link to post Share on other sites
molscouter 10 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Yes, but they'll bill you $300 for each hour they are there Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster7 11 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 According to the Holiday Inn Express commercials, if you stay there, you don't need a real lawyer. With a good night's sleep, you can just show up in court and fake it. Which, judging by some lawyers, is what many do anyways. Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Nah, I'll lay off the lawyer jokes. Thanks NJScouter for the responses. They made sense. DS Link to post Share on other sites
eisely 13 Posted July 24, 2003 Author Share Posted July 24, 2003 Catch22... NJScouter cannot be a real lawyer if we non-lawyers understood his explanation. Can't be. He's a fake. Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster7 11 Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Further evidence that NJ cannot be a real lawyer... He didn't ask for a retainer prior to giving his explanation. Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 A man walks up to NJ and asks, "How much do you charge for a legal question?" NJ replies, "$500 per question?" "$500 per question, don't you think that that is a lot for one simple question?", asks the man. "Not really", says NJ. "Do you charge everyone that amout?", says the man. "Yes.", states NJ. "Don't you think that that is outrageous?", inquires the man. "Not at all," NJ exclaims. "Now what is your fifth question?", say NJ. Sorry, I could not resist. Link to post Share on other sites
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