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I beleive my next post will be my exit from Scouting. Not because I fear the program is faulty, but because I fear I will be ridiculed and run out of scouting for beleiving that my President is not my Fuher. I love Scouting and think it the best youth program on the face of the Earth. But the "volunteers" have taken over. So long folks, I wish all of you TRUE scouters the very best.

 

ASM1

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I'm sorry. After re-reading it, I just could not post it. My family's safety comes first. But I have made a lot of ememies here, and in my home district and I exit just the same. There is one who I will deal with on a professional scouting level before I leave the program. God Bless all of you.

 

 

ASM1

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It doesn't matter. Good bye folks, I wish you all the best. Free speach has no meaning anymore.

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________

 

More than 10 million people demonstrated between Feb. 14 and Feb. 16

in 603 cities worldwide against the WAR on IRAQ.

 

The largest numbers of demonstrators were in the following cities:

 

Rome: 2.5 million

Madrid: 2 million

London: 1.5 million

Barcelona: 1 million

Paris: 800,000

New York City: 500,000

Berlin: 500,000

Seville: 250,000

Melbourne: 200,000

Athens: 200,000

Oviedo, Spain: 200,000

Montreal: 150,000

Dublin: 100,000

Los Angeles: 100,000

Brussels: 100,000

Lisbon: 100,000

Las Palmas, Spain: 100,000

Cadiz, Spain: 100,000

Amsterdam: 80,000

Toronto: 80,000

Stockholm: 80,000

 

 

List of Cities Involved: 603

 

Africa

 

Bloemfontein

Bulawayo

Cairo

Cape Town

Durban

Harare

Johannesburg

Kigali

Lusaka

Nairobi

Niamey

Rabat

Reunion Island

 

Asia/Middle East

 

Amman

Aligarh

Baghdad

Bahawalpur

Bangkok

Beirut

Bombay

Busan

Damascus

Dili

Faisalabad

Gojranwala

H ng Kong

Hyderabad

Islamabad

Istanbul

Jakarta

Karachi

Kharian

Kuala Lumpur

Kumamoto

Lahore

Larkana

Layya

Muharraq

Manama

Mandi Bahaudin

Manila

Matsumoto

Multan

Naha

Okara

Osaka

Otsu

Penang

Peshawar

Qasur

Ramallah

Sahiwal

Sargodha

S oul

Sheikhupura

Taipei

Tel Aviv

Tokyo

Wonju

 

 

Europe

 

Aalborg

A Coruqa

Aix-en-Provence

Agen

Akureyri

Albacete

Alcala

Algeciras

Alicante

Almerma

Amsterdam

Andorra

Angouleme

Antwerp

Arhus

Arosa

Arrecife

Athens

Avila

Azuqueca de Henares

Baiona

Bagnols-Sur-Ceze

Bangor

Barcelona

Belfast

Beoria

Bergen

Berlin

Berne

Bibao

Bilbao

Bodoe

Br tislava

Briviesca

Brussels

Brxnshxj

Bucharest

Budapest

Burgos

Cadiz

Castellsn

Ciudad Real

Ciutadella

Clermont Ferrand

Cluj-Napoca

Coimbra

Copenhagen

Cordoba

Corinth

Cuenca

Donosti

Dublin

Elche

El Hierro

El Rosario

Esbjerg

Ivora

Faro

Ferrol

Fraga

Gazteiz-Vitoria

Girona

Glasgow

Gothenburg

Granada

Guadalajara

Hani

Helsinki

Hereford

Huelva

Huesca

Ibiza

Igualada

Irakleio

Iruqa-Pamplona

Isafjordur

Jain

Joensuu

Jyvdskyld

Kalamata

Kavala

Kerkyra

Kiev

Kolding

Kristiansand

Kuopio

Lancaster

La Rochelle

Las Palmas

Le Mans

Lillehammer

Limoges

Lisbon

Ljubljana

Lleida

Lloret de Mar

Loannina

Logroqo

London

Longyearbyen

Lugo

Luxembourg

Lyon

Madrid

Mahsn

Malaga

Malmv

Marseille

Matars Melilla

Monforte de Lemos

Montluconm

Moscow

Moulin

Murcia

Mytilini

Nantes

Narbonne

Narvik

Navplio

Nice

Nimes

Nokia

Nxrrebro

slo

Oulu

Oviedo

Palencia

Palma de Mallorca

Pamplona

Paris

Patras

Pecs

Peiraias

Perpignan

Piedralaves

Ponta Delgada

Pontevedra

Porto

Poznan

Prague

Puertollano

Randers

Rethymno

Reykjavik

Risxr

Rodos

Rome

Roros

Rosk lde

Rovaniemi

Saint-Gaudens

Salamanca

San Sebastian

San Sbtian. de Gomera

Santa Coloma

Sta. Cruz de la Palma

Sta. Cruz de Tenerife

Santander

Stgo. de Compostela

Saone et Loire

Savolinna

Segovia

Seindjoki

Sevilla

Shetland

Siero

Silkeborg

Skopje

Sofia

Soria

Sparti

Stavanger

St ckholm

Strasbourg

Struer

Talavera de la Reina

Tallinn

Tarragona

Teruel

Thessaloniki

Toensberg

Toledo

Tortosa

Toulon

Toulouse

Tours

Tripoli

Tromsoe

Trondheim

Turku

Valby

Valence

Valencia

Valetta

Vichy

Vienna

Vienne

Vigo

Vilnius

Vitoria

Volos

Voronezh Warsaw

Wroclaw

Zagreb

Zamora

Zaragoza

 

Latin America & The Caribbean

 

Bahia

Bariloche

Bauru

Bermuda

Bogota

Buenos Aires

Caracas

Caxias do Sul

Goiania

Havana

Kingston, Jamaica

Lima

Martinique

Mexicali

Mexico City

Montevideo

Outre-Mer Guadeloup

Quito

Rio de Janiero

Rio Grande do Sol

San Jose, CR

San Juan

San Miguel

San Salvador

Santiago

Santo Domingo

Sao Paulo

 

USA and Canada

 

Akron

Amarillo

Anapolis Royal

Antigonish

Armidale

Asheville

Ashland

Athens

Atlanta

Austin

Baltimore

Beavercreek

Bellingham

Billings

Biloxi

Birmingham

Bisbee

Blacksburg

Bloomington

Boise

Boulder

Brampton

Burlington

Butler

Calexico

Calgary

Canmore

Canton

Canton, NY

Cape Cod

Cape Girardeau

Capt. Cook

Carbondale

Castlegar

Cedar Rapids

Charleston

Charlotte

Charlottetown

Charlottesville

Chatanooga

Chicago

Chico

Cincinnati

Cleveland

Cobu g

Colorado Springs

Columbia, MO

Columbia, SC

Columbus

Comox Valley

Concord

Cornwall

Corpus Christi

Cortez

Cranbrook, BC

Croton-on-Hudson

Cowichan

Dallas

Dayton

Daytona Beach

Deland

Denton

Detroit

Dubuque

Durango

Edmonton

Ellensburg, WA

Encino

Erie, PN

Eugene

Fairbanks

Farmington

Fayetteville

Fillmore

Findlay, OH

Flagstaff

Fort Lauderdale

Fort Smith

Fort Wayne

Fredricton

Fresno

Gainesville, GA

Galesburg

Galveston

Grand Forks, BC

Grand Junction

Grand Rapids

Guelph

Hadely

Halifax

Hamilton

Hilo

Holland

Honolulu

Houston

Hull

Huntington

Indianapolis

Jasper

J fferson City

Jersey City

Juneau

Kamloops

Kansas City

Kelowna

Kingston

Kitchener

Knoxville

Lafeyette

Lancaster

Lansing

Las Cruces

Las Vegas

Lawrence, KS

Leavinsworth

Lethbridge

Lexington

Lilloet

Lincoln

London

Long Beach

Los Angeles

Louisville

Macomb

Madison

McAllen

Medicine Hat

Medford, OR

Melbourne

Memphis

Minneapolis

Miami

Midland

Milwaukee

Minden, NV

Moncton

Montague Center

Montpelier

Montreal

Mount Vernon, OH

Nanaimo

Naples

Nashville

Nelson

New Britain

New Carlisle

New Orleans

New York City

Newark, DE

Norfolk, VA

North Newton

Olympia

Orange

Orangeville

Orillia

Orlando

Ottawa

Palm Desert

Parry Sound

Pensacola

Penticton

Peoria

Peterborough

Philadelphia

Phoenix

Pittsboro

Plattsburg

Portland, ME

Portland, OR

Port Perry

Portsmouth

Powell River, BC

Prince Albert

Prince George

Qualicum Beach

Quebec City

Raleigh

Red Deer

Regina

Richland Center

Riverview

Rockford

Rolla

Sackville

St. Augustine

St. Catherines

St. Charles

St. Joeseph

St. Louis

St. Paul

St. Petersburg

Saguenay

Salem

Salt Lake City

Saltspring Island

Sacramento

San Antonio

San Diego

San Francisco

San Jose

San Luis Obispo

Santa Barbara

Santa Cruz

Santa Fe

Santa Monica

Sarasota

Saskatoon

Savannah

Seattle

Sherbrooke

Silver City

Sioux Falls

Sitka

Sonora

South Bend

South Haven

Spokane

Springfield

Starkville

St. John's

Sudbury

Sydney, NS

Tacoma

Tallahassee

Tehachapi

Temple

Thornbury

Thunder Bay

Toronto

Truro

Tulsa

Tucson

Uxbridge

Vallejo

Vancouver, B.C.

Victoria

Vineyard Haven

Watertown

Wausau

Waterloo

West Palm Beach

Westbank, BC

Whitehall

Whitehorse

Wilkes-Barre

Williamsburg

Williamsport

Williamstown

Wilmington

Windsor

Winnipeg

Wolf ille

Yakima

Yarmouth

Yellowknife

York, PA

Youngstown

 

Oceania

 

Adelaide

Alice Springs

Armidale

Auckland

Bellingen

Brisbane

Bundaberg

Byron Bay

Cairns

Canberra

Central Coast

Christchurch

Dannevirke

Darwin

Dunedin

Forster-Tuncurry

Geelong

Gisborne

Greymouth

Hamilton, NZ

Hastings

Hobart

Kelowna

Kempsey

Launceton

Lismore

Melbourne

Motueka

Nambucca Heads

Nelson

Newcastle

Opotiki

Palmerston North

Perth

Rockhampton

Rotorua

Saint Helens

Sydney

Takaka

Tamworth

Tauranga

Thames

Timaru

Ulladulla

Wagga Wagga

Wanganui

Wellington

Westport

Whakatane

Whangarei

Wollongong

 

Antarctica

 

McMurdo Station

-------------------------------------------------

For more details, you may visit:

http://news.bbc.co.uk

http://www.sky.com/skynews

http://www.indymedia.org

*********************************

 

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ASM1,

 

With all due respect......double your dosage and call your doctor ASAP!

 

PS Before you accuse people of calling the President der Furher, do you realize that the website you listed previously in support of your views is from a neo-Nazi organization. Bizarre!

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I don't want to see any more comparisons between Hitler and anyone. I've seen Bush compared to Hitler and Saddam compared to Hitler. Such comparisons are ALWAYS faulty. Anyone can be compared to Hitler, but it never proves anything.

 

"Gee, Hitler was a great motivator. And Ghandi was a great motivator. Ghandi is like Hitler."

 

The typical comparison to Nazis goes like this, "Person X has this trait, Hitler has that trait, Hitler was leader of the Nazis, Nazis are evil, Person X is evil." Where is the discussion? We all know that Hitler and Nazis are bad. There's only one Hitler.

 

I'm sorry if this strays from topic, but I feel that Hitler and what he did should stand alone in history. Let's not use him and everything he did as a means to categorize people as "good" or "evil." Hitler analogies always have a logical fallacy.

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ASM1,

 

This may not be very scoutlike.....but I don't give a flying rip if I offended you with the TRUTH! What I said is not false. Your post contains a link to "whitestruggle.net". Take a look at the site for yourself, not just the one single page you pulled from it concerning Bush. It is a white supremist, anti-semitic website. My Dad was a WWII US Marine veteran who took part in the defeat of the Nazi's. Don't bring that junk around scouts. Like I said, double you dosage and call your doctor.

 

I suppose I could give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that someone sent you this link and you never looked beneath it to see where it was coming from. Even so, I question your judgement and opinions to use junk like this straight off of the internet and consider it to be more truthful than professional journalists who actually have to substantiate their stories before editors allow it to be printed. All you've accomplished is showing how niave and gullible you are. Open your eyes and do a little research first.(This message has been edited by kwc57)

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I think that if we go to war with Iraq, it will be for the best. I think Bush has enough sense (and then some) to wait until he knows it is time. He also wont pull out like Clinton did from Somalia. Clinton could risk almost two hundred lives one day, but the very next pull them out of there. 18 American Rangers were killed in the city, with another 70 some wounded. I think Bush will not allow it to happen that so many people are killed or wounded and then just pull them right out.

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Now, any topic on a forum will undoubtedly stray eventually. But this is really something else. I don't even know what we're talking about anymore. Often topics evolve into other intelligent and useful conversation, but this has just diminished into ramblings and insults.

 

In an attempt to bring the conversation back around, does anyone think that war with Iraq is avoidable? ASM1 I think would argue "no." And many here would say that it is avoidable. But should we avoid it?

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Zahnada,

 

Gladly! Is a war with Iraq avoidable? No. The administration has put too much time and effort into it to turn back now. If they didn't go to war, they would look like fools to the rest of the world. We have spent a year trying to tie Saddam to Al Queda and convince the world that Saddam is a threat to the survival of the world. If we were to back off and walk away, we would be laughing stocks. Not exactly a good reason to go forward, but there is no "backwards" at this stage. We have moved men and materiel into place. We have enlisted the support of a number of nations. Even if Saddam decided to come clean and truely fling all the doors open and allow unfettered access, what would the US say if nothing was found? Would we say that he was telling the truth or would we say he is still just playing games and is hiding the weapons? He is d*mned if he does and d*mned if he don't. It is a no win situation for Iraq. Even if Saddam took off into exile in the middle of the night, we would occupy Iraq to "ensure" the peace and control who took power.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Saddam supporter or an anti-war nut. I fully supported out military action in Afganistan because it was justifiable. We had been attacked and we retaliated with extreme prejudice. Bravo!!! Saddam has a very weakened force and capability from what he had when we kicked his fanny in the Gulf War. The small amount of working equipment he does still have is rusting and in bad need of repair. He has been contained and he has not been a threat and still isn't. Has he threatened us in word or deed in all that time? Has he even said he wants to attack us....ever? We are the ones who have decided to go to war with him. We have become the aggressor....based purely on suspicions. As the world's only super power, do we really want to send a message to all other nations that we can and will attack them anytime we get nervous or suspicious of them? Or when they have a type of government that we don't like? People say that 9/11 changed everything and it is the only justification we need. Is it? How does the fact that a bunch of Islamic radical terrorists attacking us justify us going after whoever we want, whenever we want? There are plenty of other dictators around the world that are just as evil as Saddam...why did we single him out?

 

Is the war avoidable at this stage? No! Should we be having the war in the first place instead of trying other ways of removing him thru pressure? Probably, but that option is now gone. What price will we pay for our actions?

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war IS avoidable. sometimes the big dog can just bark a bit, mark some territory and walk away.

 

the issue is NOT whether it's avoidable, but whether some are so set as to consider no other course (this can get into a whole philosophical issue that starts off "well then, it ain't avoidable", but that's a different argument altogether, and not one that addresses the "painted ourselves into a corner" motif previously discussed).

 

I, for one, have sufficient humility to understand that just maybe the President has access to info and intelligence that I do not.

 

I have sufficient humanity to recognize that despite the posturing, GWB is not a blood-lusting beast blinded to reason and unaccepting of true alternative.

 

And I have sufficient hope that somewhere there's a win-win answer for the world.

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Wow! A guy takes a couple of weeks in the Oregon woods and returns to an ASM1 meltdown, no telling what else in other threads...I'm almost afraid to look.

KWC57, I think I understand your sentiments and I might have been a little more sympathetic to the other argument that the coming war is about oil, but...

I saw Dennis J. Kucinich make a miserable attempt at articulating that argument recently and I was even embarrassed by it. But KWC is more persuasive with his argument that Bush has painted himself into a corner. Either way, the administration will lose politically. Littlebillie, I hope you are correct about the big dog but I am afraid that I don't have that much faith in Bush's intelligence (I'm not thinking about the CIA or FBI here). I fear that in addition to wrecking the nation's solvency (too late to worry about that), Bush could put a lot of good men in their grave. I hope I'm wrong.

If I'm not, though, we are risking long-term damage not only to our already-battered status as the leader of the world's 'high ground' but to the rest of our alliances as well, maybe a lot more. Again I hope I'm wrong.

ASM1, I hope you are able to ease your pain.

 

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