Fundamentalists of all religions have a lot in common

[tjhammer 10]

Below is an interesting article I read in Newsweek International Edition (Dec 9 edition, by Carla Power) while flying overseas last week. I post it here as a spinoff of the "Rev" Fred Phelps thread... I think the article makes a more articulate statement than I have done:

 

 

 

The Age of Fundamentalism

 

Fundamentalists of all religions have a lot in common

 

The holy warrior speaks simply and directly, cleaving the world neatly in two. "This is a religious struggle, a clash of cultures," he intones. Luckily, God is on the right side, having "put a hedge of protection around us."

 

 

OSAMA BIN LADEN, lashing out on Al-Jazeera? No, a lunchtime speech to the Economic Club in Detroit by Pat Robertson, the Christian evangelical. Those who might have thought otherwise can be forgiven, for the echo is spookily similar. The Americans and the British, the Qaeda leader said before the U.S. attack on Afghanistan, "have divided the world into two regionsone of faith and another of infidelity, from which we hope God will protect us."

 

These are good days for Holy Warriors, for this is the age of fundamentalism. Relativism remains a key casualty of September 11. In these queasy times, clinging to certainty and absolutism seems far safer than the messy course of debate and dissent. So in the Islamic world, so in America, where members of the Christian right have come out with a rash of attacks on Islam, calling it "evil" and branding Muhammad a "terrorist" and "demon-possessed pedophile." With his "Axis of Evil," George W. Bush parses the world"for us or against us," tidy lines in the sand dividing "barbarians" from the "civilized."

 

Look more closely, though, and the us and them distinction collapses. Right-wing Christian leaders like Franklin Graham may denounce Islam as a "wicked religion," and Muslim fundamentalists may defame Jews, but in fact their visions are far closer than either camp would admit. Their beliefs on the roles of women and religion in public life closely mirror one another. Both share a love affair with the media and a suspicion of pluralism and secular liberalism. When the Muslim College, a London-based center of Islamic learning, held a seminar for Muslim, Christian and Jewish conservatives, the participants had a shock of self-recognition, says Zaki Badawi, an Egyptian religious scholar who heads the college. Suddenly, they realized they shared attitudes and world views. Whatever their stripe, fundamentalists are absolutists at heart, says Badawi. "They dont like to hear other ideas at all. They want to hear their own voice, and are suspicious of anyone elses."

 

The exchange of vitriol between Christian and Muslim camps has thus produced a weird mirroring effect. It wasnt always so. Back in 1989, Irans Ayatollah Khomeini condemned the writer Salman Rushdie to death for denigrating the Prophet Muhammad in his novel "The Satanic Verses." Then, the so-called Rushdie Affair pitted secularism against religion. The sureness of the perfection of the Quran slammed up against Western liberalisms fanatical belief in tolerancein the absolutism of free speech and the status of literature as a sacred place to question and debate. Thirteen years on, the loudest voices in the debate arent liberals and Muslim fundamentalists, but two sets of fundamentalistsChristians and Muslims. If right-wing Christians attack Muhammad and his teachings, Muslim extremists attack America and the Jewsalbeit not Jesus, since he is considered a prophet in the Quran. Whatever its target, the vitriol is the same. "This is the same kind of religiosity, with the same kind of dynamisms," says Karen Armstrong, author of "The Battle for God." "All fundamentalists feel threatened by modernity, and all of them in their sense of threat tend to demonize the Other."

 

One Other is shared by all fundamentalisms, and that is Woman. Every fundamentalist wants a traditional wife and mother, preferably covered up. (The reason for the Muslim womans veil and the Orthodox Jewish womans wig? The shared belief that a womans hair is for her husband, not the public.) The Taliban werent alone in dominating women. The Faith and Message Statement of the Southern Baptist Convention requires a wife to "submit graciously to the servant leadership of her husband." Conservative Muslims, fearing sex outside marriage, would feel right at home in the Christian rights new abstinence campaign.

 

Though both Muslim and Christian fundamentalists claim to be wary of modernity, theyre dexterous with its tools. Just as the ministries of Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and Jimmy Swaggart were built on radio and television, so do extremist Muslim groups owe their popularity to the Internet and satellite television. To be fair, the mainstream media use fundamentalists just as much as the fundamentalists use the media. Bombs and fatwa s make better copy than the predictable routine of five daily prayers. Operation Rescue, the anti-abortion crusade, is the stuff of national headlines, while Quaker prayer meetings are the stuff of community newsletters. And precisely because extremists make such great copy, the quietists and moderates rarely get heard. The wishy-washy liberal, the Sufi, the Israeli peacenik, the born-again Christian who believes in the separation of church and statethey are shouted down. Robertson is right. We are in the middle of a clash of cultures. But its not between Islam and Christianity. Its between fundamentalists and the rest of us.(This message has been edited by tjhammer)

[red feather 10]

It is too bad that your post and the reasoning it includes will be either, ignored or disputed. Thanks for the post and the thinking that hopefully it will start.

 

yis

[k9gold-scout 10]

The basic difference is that right wing christans are not killing women and children as their primary target. If anyone said that Jesus Christ would marry a Miss World contestant there would be no Christians out to kill people. The Jews are only defending themselves against those who intend to kill them. No side is 100% good or evil but the scale is not balanced.

If Hitler could have been stoped in the early days of WWII with thousands dead, there would not have been 10 million dead.

 

[tjhammer 10]

The article doesn't seem to be suggesting a moral equivalency (nor am I) between the actions of any fanatics. There is none. Let's not take this debate in the direction of "yeah, but look how bad the radical terrorist are".... of course they are nut jobs, and it would be far too easy to dismiss the point of this article by shifting the focus of the debate in that direction.

 

Most (all?) of us would obviously agree that fundamentalist Islam is more threatening in the world than fundamentalist Christianity (at least today)... but isn't it utterly ridiculous that ANY case can be made for that question ("which is more dangerous?") to even be asked, and for the question to have even the slightest merit? Isn't it ridiculous for there to be ANY parallels between the radicalized "fundamentalist" Christianity and "fundamentalist" Islam?

[tjhammer 10]

(And lest this debate be dismissed as irrelevant, keep in mind one of my most consistent observations on this board is a fear that the BSA is evolving under the control of far right-wing Christianity, and increasingly self-identifying as a "faith-based organization"... my point in this thread stays true to form and is just intended as a case for all of us to question whether this is who we want our organization to become.)

[Rooster7 11]

Comparing these Christian preachers (whether I agree with them or not is beside the point) to OSAMA BIN LADEN is ridiculous and shameful. You may not like what "fundamentalist" Christians have to say - you may even think of them as judgmental (although, most just warn others about God's judgment i.e. they dont judge othersthey recite Gods judgment in the Bible), but to put them in the same group as terrorists is inane. You are exposing your bias against these folks. You accuse them of demonizing others (a false accusation in my mind), when in fact, thats precisely what you are doing to them.

 

(And lest this debate be dismissed as irrelevant, keep in mind one of my most consistent observations on this board is a fear that the BSA is evolving under the control of far right-wing Christianity, and increasingly self-identifying as a "faith-based organization"... my point in this thread stays true to form and is just intended as a case for all of us to question whether this is who we want our organization to become.)

 

Despite your implication, I think this concern is more yours and perhaps a few others (like NJ and Merlyn) and not that of most posters on this board. Christian fundamentalists have not forced their will on BSA and/or its members. BSA's value system was established generations ago. It's always identified itself as "faith-based".

 

[le Voyageur 72]

 

One day, but not within any of our lifetimes my hope is that mankind's insanity for religions will cease for a more holistic and unifying search for the spiritual. Until then, we few outriders must be content to sell mirrors in the land of the blind.

Now, another war on the horizon with petty men choosing for God the side that He must take...this is madness

[ScoutParent 10]

Christians take stands on ideas that are contrary to what God wants for his people. Does this mean we judge others; no it means we don't endorse it; there is a huge difference. Read Romans 1:24-40.

[red feather 10]

ditto, le Voyaguer.

 

Thanks.

 

yis