Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Two of the units in the Chief Seattle council (Orca district) are Pack 4567 and Troop 1567, both sponsored by the Naval Submarine Base, Bangor. These units are chartered by the US military and cannot exclude atheists; ask Brad Farmer and the other BSA execs if they expect the US government to practice unlawful religious discrimination on their behalf. (see http://members.doubleknot.com/Pack4567/about/aboutus.html ) The Chief Seattle council also runs Learning for Life, a youth program offered to public schools to teach ethics. Ask them if they teach this in their public school ethics course: "Anybody that doesn't believe in god isn't a good citizen, and that if an atheist found a wallet on the ground they would pick it up, plunder the money and throw the wallet back on the ground." --Glen Schmidt, Chief Seattle Dist. Comm. Chair Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 It is considered a sin to spell "sponsor" correctly? Somebody please inform the Pack 4567 webmaster. Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster7 11 Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Ed, OGE, ScoutParent, Compass, and ASM7 - I agree with your posts too. Hopefully, there will always be more Scouts and Scouters that embrace BSA's values (boys only, heterosexual role models, belief in God, etc.) then reject them. If the vocal minority is given their way, BSA will not be the organization that we love today. If you're passionate about your beliefs, and BSA as a faith based organization, then we need to stand strong and defend our position upon every encroachment. If not, they (those that oppose our values) will eventually win control of BSA as an organization. Sadly, and even more disturbing, this has already happen to many churches. The Church (the body of believers that hold up Christ as their Lord and Savior) was once fairly united. 40 years ago, even Catholics and Protestants, agreed on many fundamental points - the Holy Trinity, Christ as Lord and Savior, etc. At that time, Christians would never have debated the immorality of homosexuality. It would have been an absurd exercise. My point is, if you don't defend what you believe, others will take advantage of that passivity and corrupt people and organizations that may be dear to you. So thanks for being one of the defenders of truth. As corny as that last comment may sound, I mean it from the bottom of my heart. Merlyn, I knew it wasn't going to be too long before you jumped in here. Can't say I'm happy to hear from you. I pray God opens your eyes. If he does, you could be a powerful witness. You are relentless, if nothing else. Perhaps one day, you will share a bond and find company with the Apostle Paul. Grace and Peace to you. Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Rooster7 said: >Merlyn, I knew it wasn't going to be too long before you jumped in here. Can't say I'm happy to hear from you. Nothing to say about the BSA's dishonesty in chartering units to government agencies? Nothing to say about Glen Schmidt's obvious bigotry? Perhaps one day you'll share a bond with your fellow human beings. Link to post Share on other sites
ASM7 10 Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Merlyn If you go to Pack 4567's website and look at their bylaws, you will see that National BSA policies have precedence over any of theirs. So yes they can exclude athiests. And by the way, according to their section on leaders, they do not have one. Doug Link to post Share on other sites
Scoutmaster Ron 12 Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 This guy was on a talk show yesterday stating his case. He said that he had believed in God when he became a Boy Scout however during his years as a scout he did not believe their was a god. He went on to state that even during his Eagle Board of Review he stated that he did not believe in God. How this guy ever was awarded his Eagle Scout is beyond me. I guess we can go along with the rules as long as the suit the individual until they dont he wants them changed? He should be removed form the program as well as his Eagle Scout Rank Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 >If you go to Pack 4567's website and look at their bylaws, you will see that National BSA policies have precedence over any of theirs. So yes they can exclude athiests. If you'll look at their web site, you'll see that they're chartered by the US military, which is constitutionally restricted from running a "no atheists" youth group. No, they can't exclude atheists; they will have to find a chartering partner that can legally discriminate against atheists. Just as an example, do you think the US military could run a "no Jews" youth group by chartering through an organization that excludes Jews? Link to post Share on other sites
ASM7 10 Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Merlyn Maybe you need to go back and read the website. The Pack was originally sponsored by the base, but now is sponsored by the Commanding Officer. So yes, I was right. Doug Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 >Maybe you need to go back and read the website. The Pack was originally sponsored by the base, but now is sponsored by the Commanding Officer. So yes, I was right. Doesn't look that way to me: "More about our Chartered Organization: http://www.bangor.navy.mil/" And I've never heard of an individual chartering a BSA unit, it's always an organization. Link to post Share on other sites
ASM7 10 Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Merlyn I went to that site like you suggested. I found nothing about Scouting there. Doug Link to post Share on other sites
fboisseau 10 Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 From what I can see on the Packs web page who actually charters the organization is not clear. I suspect that the actual holder of the charter is an organization of parents on the base that wanted the Pack to keep going. Keep in mind that a lot of times the leadership of Packs and Troops do not see a distinction between the actual chartering organization and the supplier of facilities that chartering organization works with and also supports. For example a lot of Packs are chartered by PTA/PTOs, but if you ask the Pack who charters them they say the school that the PTA/PTO also supports. Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 >I went to that site like you suggested. I found nothing about Scouting there. I was quoting the pack's page; they call bangor.navy.mil their chartered organization. And again, I don't know of the BSA chartering units to individuals, only organizations. Link to post Share on other sites
Compass 10 Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 Merlyn_LeRoy: "'Anybody that doesn't believe in god isn't a good citizen, and that if an atheist found a wallet on the ground they would pick it up, plunder the money and throw the wallet back on the ground.'" and: "Nothing to say about Glen Schmidt's obvious bigotry?" I can't verify the accuracy of the original quote, but I can comment: no, I do not agree with the original statement and characterization of atheists. "Nothing to say about the BSA's dishonesty in chartering units to government agencies?" I would say that the rules, policies and procedures are pretty obvious. If not, recent court cases make it so. Merlyn_LeRoy, I'm not sure about your point here. If you think something is wrong, if you think laws are being broken, I would suggest you take action and contact your Congressman or Senator regarding it. Of course, the judicial route is always available. "Perhaps one day you'll share a bond with your fellow human beings." I think most of us share a bond in Scouting and its program. As I mentioned before, some seem to say: "I love the program." -and- "I hate the program." -and- "I want the right to cherry-pick the things I want/like/need out of the program." And, most of all, "I don't want to create my own program that best suits my wants/likes/needs." Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 >>"Nothing to say about the BSA's dishonesty in chartering units to government agencies?" >I would say that the rules, policies and procedures are pretty obvious. If not, recent court cases make it so. >Merlyn_LeRoy, I'm not sure about your point here. If you think something is wrong, if you think laws are being broken, I would suggest you take action and contact your Congressman or Senator regarding it. Of course, the judicial route is always available I guess you're not aware of the ACLU lawsuit to remove all BSA charters from government agencies; aside from that, I would also say that the rules by which the US government must act are also pretty obvious, yet the BSA continues to charter BSA units to government agencies that can't exclude atheists. As usual, you, like so many other BSA supporters, turn a blind eye to this. Would you see anything wrong if government agencies ran youth groups that didn't allow Jews? Would you see anything wrong if public school ethics programs were run by people who considered no Jews to be good citizens, and all Jews to be dishonest? Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted October 30, 2002 Share Posted October 30, 2002 This page http://members.doubleknot.com/Pack4567/about/ScoutingOnSubase/scoutingonsubase.html clearly states "Cub Scouts: Sponsored by the CO of Subase, Capt. Baker" and "Boy Scouts: Sponsored by the PACNORWEST MWR David Della-Rovere" Link to post Share on other sites
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