What did we sign up for?

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Pursuant to the thread on the Autictic child from Kentucky, and so we dont stray from that topic, I would like to know, when you signed on as a Scouter, what challenges did you expect and what topics do feel is beyond what you should be expected to handle?

 

Personally, if the family is wiiling to work with the troop, I am not sure there is any boy who cant be a scout unless the boy is a danger to himself or others

[rlculver415 10]

Maybe that fact that I had about 20 years experience working with youth prior to becoming a Scouter has something to do with this...but I never really felt that there were kids out there that didn't belong in Scouts, or were too difficult to work with. If I ever meet one that I feel I can't handle, I would hope to have the help of other Scouters or the parents or both. As OGE says, unless the boy is a danger to himself or others, I'm willing to give my best to anyone who wants to be a Scout.

[Bob White 20]

As I think I posted once before I believe that scouting is for every boy, but not every boy is for scouting. I strongly disagree with the way the scout in the article was treated and think the Scoutmaster made a number of bad decisions.

 

I also know that we are a huge scouting movement and that we have a wide variety of leaders from all walks of life, educational, and skill backgrounds. There are hundreds and possibly thousands of leaders who are ill-fitted to deal with young people in general let alone 'special needs' scouts. A good leader in any walk of life knows their limits, their strengths and weaknesses. Had this SM let the family know when they met that he did not feel capable of providing a quality scouting experienc for the young man, maybe alternatives could have been found or family involvement secured at the get go.

 

I don't blame the SM for not having the tools to work with this scout, I fault him for not being open about it up front and for not handling things in a more mature manner.

 

I signed on to help develop young people in the community in the values I was raised to believe in. Those values I felt were best represented in the scouting program. I learned early on that to do the most for the most youth that I had to accept not everyone is willing to behave as a scout or accept the principles of scouting. My role is to make the message available but at some point the boy needs to choose to hear the message. I would not however remove a boy who was not a threat to the welfare of himself or others.

 

Bob White

[yaworski 10]

Bob, we still only know one side of the story. We don't know how the Scoutmaster percieved the boy when he joined the troop. We don't know how the mother represented the boy when he joined the troop.

 

We know very little except what a newspaper has reported about what a biased person has said.

 

 

[Twocubdad 665]

Bob White's point in the second paragraph, above, is exactly the one I was trying to make in my post regrading the Kentucky autistic Scout. It's a wise person -- much less Scouter -- who knows their limitations.

 

As far as my expectations, I think there are two things to consider: first, is a matter of informed consent. From the scant information in the post about the Kentucky situation, it doesn't seem the mother did much to educate the Scoutmaster about her son's condition.

 

At Cub Scout day camp we had a boy who's parents noted that he was ADHD on the medical form -- no mention of being prone to violent outbursts. It took three men, one of whom was badly bitten, to restrain the boy and carry him to headquarters.

 

I won't say that this boy shouldn't have been at camp or shouldn't have been in Scouts, but the parents sure as heck had a responsibility to provide more information and possibly be at camp to deal with him.

 

The other thing I think a good Scout leader would consider is the overall impact on his unit. How severe are the boy's disabilities? Are there sufficient numbers of leaders available to work with the boy? What kind of help will his parents provide? Does the Scoutmaster feel personally equipped to deal with the boy? What is the maturity level of the rest of the Troop? How will the other boys deal with the situation? The leaders needs to honestly assess the situation and decide what's best for the Troop. If their judgement is that they just can't handle a particular boy, I don't think a lot of second-guessing is appropriate.

 

Having a Scout in the Troop with physical or mental disabilities can be a very positive experience for both the disabled boy and the other Scouts. But I think boy with severe emotional or behavioral problems could be much more of a challenge. But I'll admit that I know very little about disabilities and that's just layman's view.

[red feather 10]

Yaworski you are correct in that we don't know the whole story and probably never will. Speculation is about the best we can do and hope to learn something from this and each other to prepare for the future.

 

When I signed up I had no preconceived notions of what scouting would require, but was willing to do what was needed to provide the best scouting experience that I could. As it turns out, what I signed up for was occasionally bad/good coffee, good company and the opportunity to enrich the life of a scout. That is enough.

 

If a scout has special requirements, then if I or those I work with cannot provide, then it is up to us as LEADERS to try to find the help that is needed if possible. Summarily removing a scout should be the last resort not the first. We would do so for the ones we work with in our proffessional lives, caqn we do no less for a kid?

 

YIS

[SagerScout 10]

I'm with Red Feather, we can and should do our best to get what help we need to keep kids in scouting when at all possible. Dealing with kids with "labels" of one type or another is part of the package, like it or not. We don't know the story in Kentucky at all; I would hope that it's better than it sounded but you never know.

 

Nonetheless, as some of you may recall, we had a scout assault another scout in our troop, and he was rapidly removed by the CO as a danger to others. We were grieved, but the safety of the boys comes first, and the offender's mom was in such deep, deep denial about her son's condition that we were convinced no help was forthcoming from her.

 

On the other hand, we still have no fewer than 7 scouts with severe asthma and 4 to my certain knowledge taking some form of prescription mind-bending medication (including my own son). And the troop gets along just great. So it's not true that kids with health and/or emotional problems can't be good scouts, they most certainly can. In fact, I see more "scoutlike" behavior in this bunch than in the allegedly Normal troops we were in before. By Scoutlike, I specifically mean friendly, helpful and kind.

 

In another thread, I came down against requiring drug abuse education for scouters but perhaps an optional short course on behavioral psych for handling the top 4 diagnoses a scouter might run into could be a useful addition to the available training curriculum. That way scouters that are philosophically willing to try to mainstream kids with mild problems but didn't feel smart enough could get the help they need to be successful. I believe that kids with severe emotional disorders (suicidal, severe OCD, severe bipolar, stuff like that) would probably be best-served in a special troop with a really good SM with a deep bench of ASMs. I also believe that a SM that just does not want to deal with a particular troubled kid shouldn't have to try; if no ASM is handy with understanding, it might be best for all if the kid relocates.

 

That said, I would hope that the SM would want to try.

 

 

[sctmom 11]

Let me be honest, I signed up so MY son would have a good Webelos program. I didn't like the style of the den leaders, then suddenly there were 15 kids in the den. The opportunity was there and I took it, volunteering to lead some of the boys in a new den. I wanted my son and his friend to have a good experience.

 

Since then I have found out there is a lot that I didn't know I had signed up for. I have learned that you are responsible for the kids near you -- to help them when needed and to correct when needed. I also have to deal with other adults I don't always agree with. In our pack and troop there are all social-economic levels of families, all types of living arrangements at home, different backgrounds, different job schedules for parents, different medical and emotional problems.

 

Last year a young boy joined my den. He was 11 years old, schoolwork on a 1st grade level, speech problems, bi-racial, spent many years in foster homes, just moved in with the woman who was adopting him, all sorts of behavioral and emotional disorders, new school. He was also known to be violent with little provocation. His new mom never left him at den meetings alone. He was SO excited to be in Scouting it just had to warm your heart. He seldom said a word and I think most of the time he really didn't know what we were talking about but he always had a smile on his face. His mom said he would iron his uniform shirt the night before meetings.

 

When I went looking for troops, I did so with all my Webelos in mind. I asked specific questions pertaining to this boy. The SM of the troop we joined stopped me quickly and said "we have all kinds, he won't be the first, of course he is welcome." Unfortunately, the family decided that they had too much on their plate and scouting was dropped. This is a different case because the mom was in involved or made sure another responsible adult was with him.

 

Did I have to make some changes to accomodate him in the den? Yes. I could not hand him a sheet of paper with instructions and expect him to do something on his own. I found ways to include him in flag ceremonies and skits without making him speak in public (he was terrified of that). Just standing up in front of the den and holding the flag was a big accomplishment for him.

 

I've seen other "problem" children in Cub Scouts. I guess we had a good pack. Most every parent was involved. If a child was at an event without a parent, we all looked out for him. Usually these were the kids with behavior problems. We just made sure someone was with him all the time. I remember one boy in particular. He often said things that we didn't allow (we don't call people stupid), he would get overexcited, and at the same time had some serious fears. His dad was not involved, his mom had a new infant and could not always attend. We all looked out for this kid. He had a heart of gold but also needed lots of praise and lots of reminders about behavior.

 

As in many cases in life, what we thought we signed up for and what we really signed up for aren't always the same thing.

 

We have one scoutmaster on this board who has a deaf son. What if that boy joined your troop and his parents were not involved? Are you trained to work with the deaf? I'm not. Are you going to send him to the special needs troop?

 

Yes, there are cases where a boy is a danger to himself and others. Cases where the boy would damage the program for all the other boys. But why is that the "humper" should be excused if provoked and some say "was just being a boy", while those with medical problems should be sent away?

[james_clegg 10]

I do it because it is great to see boys change and become great.

 

I have fun too.

[CubsRgr8 10]

As a leader, I expect the parents to inform me if their son has any special needs. If I lack the ability to deal with their son's special needs, then I expect the parents to work with me to provide the assistance necessary so that their son can participate.

 

For example, I had one scout last year in my Webelos2 den that was ADHD. I didn't know this until his parents told me and we agreed that one needed to attend our den meetings and outings. It worked out well and he earned his AOL.

 

The key is communication. The parents must be upfront with any special needs and the leaders must be upfront with their ability to deal with those needs.

[yaworski 10]

I signed up for the excellend pay and benefits.

 

[Rooster7 11]

As to "what did I sign up for"...Frankly, I signed up to spend time with my sons and to assist in a program that they enjoyed. Although I don't mind helping other boys, I did so originally out of obligation. It was not something that I pursued with glee. Bottom line: I enjoying working with some boys much more than some others. Regardless, as a Scouter I try to help them all.

 

I agree there should be two overriding concerns - 1) Safety for others, and 2) Quality of the program. If a troop can accommodate a boy and not sacrifice these two concerns, I think it's admirable. However, I think a distinction needs to be drawn between what BSA requires of us as Scouters and what is honorable and commendable. If a SM takes on a boy as a project, I think that's great...more power to him. However, I don't feel it's required of him. Nor would I think less of a good SM if he declined to do so. Of course, this is predicated on what I believe to be reasonable. Spending some time to explain things to a particular Scout and making an occasional special effort (i.e., talking to his parents, consoling him, etc.) is part of the job. When a boy's happiness demands an extraordinary effort by the SM (or some other Scouter), I believe we're entering into an area that should be defined by each individual SM without criticism. Still, as Bob White noted, the SM should be open about his willingness to support such a boy. Parents shouldn't have to guess as to what level of effort the SM is willing to make.

 

[eisely 13]

Coming in somewhat late to the discussion, I agree strongly with the other posts that state that there has to be a high degree of two way communication between the parents and the adult leaders at the front end of a special needs boy's scouting career. If parental presence at all functions and acitivities is required then the parents should be willing to do that. Scouting is for all boys as long as they are not dangers to themselves and others, but as a volunteer there is only so much time and energy I can be expected to devote to one scout. I am willing to try, but I reserve the right to say that I can't deal with any particular situation.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Eisely,

 

A good succint statement of what I was trying to say

[Twocubdad 665]

Ditto.