Kentucky autistic boy booted from Troop

[evmori 11]

I just thought of this!

 

Bob White, where are you on this subject!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[ScoutParent 10]

Sctmom, I did not advocate "getting rid" of the boy with the "strange problem". What I said was there are ramifications here that go further than the boy has a disability. Aggression and autism go hand in hand. Inability to relate. Reacting violently in strange or new circumstances. What I asked was how will this boy's behavior impact the other boys in the troop. I also asked why the family would want the boy in a troop with a sm that didn't feel equipped to handle his needs. Not having a child with this type of disability, I can only hypothesize that I would want my child in the company of a group that was trained, able and willing to deal with my child's type of condition.

 

"So I should pull my son out of Scouts because sometimes he has a problem? Or I should put him in a troop that includes boys that are so severly handicapped they will never live on their own?"

 

Sctmom, if we're talking about your son, the answer is no don't pull him out of scouts. From what you've told us he has no propensity to aggression towards others. As far as the second statement--autistic children are not expected to live on their own as adults; even highly functioning ones. This information is on most all of the autism sites I looked at. Most will live with constant supervision. So you are asking this troop to do what you find repugnant for your child.

(This message has been edited by ScoutParent)

[Rooster7 11]

sctmom,

 

You obviously have a vested and an emotional interest in this issue. I view your sarcasm in that light, but I ask you to reread my post carefully. It's not nearly as unresponsive and callous as your response implies.

 

I don't mind a volunteer saying "I don't know how to handle this about your child". But that should be followed by "What should we do about it?" Not "bye bye".

 

I agree with this sentiment to a point. Certainly, in terms of time and energy, no one should volunteer to be a SM unless he is prepared to make some sacrifices. The job requires a level of effort that should not be taken lightly. Within reason, I believe a SM should try to include as many boys as possible. The key phrase here is "within reason".

 

However, parents must recognize that sometimes the effort required by the SM and/or the troop is beyond the call of duty. If this is the case, it should be understood by all and especially the parents that this effort is being extended because the SM and/or the troop chose to do so. It should not be taken for granted or demanded. You cannot expect a Scoutmaster to "deal with it" if that means he is required to be a part-time nurse, psychologist, and special Ed. instructor. At some point in time, a SM and/or the troop may advise parents that the problem is beyond their capabilities and/or it requires tasks that they are unwilling to do.

 

Take a look at other organizations. Do we expect boys and girls club coaches to handle every physical or mental problem that a child might encounter? Even when we pay for a service, it is not always reasonable to demand that the instructor "deal with it". For example, do you think the local music store will handle these types of problems while providing piano lessons? I seriously doubt it. It's not that I'm uncaring. I'm simply stating that we (as parents) need to take a humble approach towards these volunteers (and even paid instructors) if we are asking them to handle special situations. Our problems are not necessarily their problems. At the very least, it should be understood and appreciated that they are going beyond what it is required.

 

Personally, I am only willing to go so far. Which is probably while I'll never step forward to be a SM. I know of a few others within my troop that will go the extra mile or two. I'd rather support them in that role than make some of the sacrifices that they're willing to make. I truly appreciate these people. However, I see their efforts as extraordinary and deserving of admiration, not as standard for the course. If they chose not to do some of things that they do, I would not find fault in them.

 

If I encountered a Scout that constantly soiled his clothing, eventually (probably sooner than later) I would ask the parents to find a way to "deal with it" or ask them to find a troop that knows how. Am I the most self-sacrificing Scouter around? No. I admit that I have limitations. On the other hand, I don't think the typical SM should be expected to handle this situation on a regular basis? If you find one, you should thank God that he placed such a self-sacrificing leader in your troop. He's the exception not the rule.

 

[ScoutParent 10]

Sctmom and Sager Scout, please take this information in the spirit that it is intended; to advocate the best for your children...From Hoagie's website:

 

 

"ADHD and Gifted. Many gifted children are being mis-diagnosed as Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). The gifted child's characteristics of intensity, sensitivity, impatience, and high motor activity can easily be mistaken for ADHD. Some gifted children surely do suffer from ADHD, and thus have a dual diagnosis of gifted and ADHD; but in my opinion, most are not. Few health care professionals give sufficient attention to the words about ADHD in DSM-IV(1994) that say "...inconsistent with developmental level...." The gifted child's developmental level is different (asynchronous) when compared to other children, and health care professionals need to ask whether the child's inattentiveness or impulsivity behaviors occur only in some situations but not in others (e.g., at school but not at home; at church, but not at scouts, etc.). If the problem behaviors are situational only, the child is likely not suffering from ADHD.

 

Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder and Gifted. Even as preschoolers, gifted children love to organize people and things into complex frameworks, and get quite upset when others don't follow their rules or don't understand their schema. Many gifted first graders are seen as perfectionistic and "bossy" because they try to organize the other children, and sometimes even try to organize their family or the teacher. As they grow up, they continue to search intensely for the "rules of life" and for consistency. Their intellectualizing, sense of urgency, perfectionism, idealism, and intolerance for mistakes may be misunderstood to be signs of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder or Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder. In some sense, however, giftedness is a dual diagnosis with Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder since intellectualization may be assumed to underlie many of the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria for this disorder."

 

Schools do not offer this information because often they simply do not have it themselves. You can request the school do an iq test to determine if they have been overlooked as gifted. Don't be misled by the fact that they may struggle with a couple subjects while being excellent in others; giftedness and ld go hand in hand.

 

[Bob White 20]

Hi Ed,

Here is what i think, based on what little we know, and what I see as some weak reporting.

 

If the boy joined in April as some reports say, attended summercamp camp in August, and was booted for problems connected to use of the latrines I have to ask, What did the troop do for latrines on campouts in April, May, June, And July? What steps were taken to prepare a special needs scout before he was taken for a long term trip?

 

The scoutmaster knew the boys condition. What did he do to prepare himself and others to work with this scout? If he did not feel he or others were qualified then why did he sign the boys application form? Did he have a meeting or even talk with the mother, the den leader, the cubmaster? Did he seek any help from local medicial resources? What did he do after he accepted the scout to make every effort to provide a scouting program that met his needs?

 

Finally why did he suddenly boot the boy out (without the authority to do so) and not go back to the parents and others to ask for help and guidance?

 

The boy's behavior is not fully in the boys control, but the Scoutmaster's behavior is completely within his. I would have expected a trained adult to have handled this situation better from beginning to end.

 

What did the parent do during the first 4 or 5 months to see that her son was adapting to scouting and that the SM was comfortable meeting her son's need's? Where was the communications between the mom and the SM?

 

One of the biggest barriers to successful scouting is the inability of many adults to play nice together.

 

Bob White

 

 

 

[sctmom 11]

Rooster said:

"However, parents must recognize that sometimes the effort required by the SM and/or the troop is beyond the call of duty. "

 

I fully agree. I do not expect anyone person to take on my child as much as I do. I do hope the newspaper article was lacking a lot. The SM should not be shouldering ALL the responsibility at any troop, especially with the special cases (no matter what the case). I also agree that if someone can't handle a situation I would much rather them be honest about it than to hide from it. But this article states that the scoutmaster drew the line of "him or me" pretty quickly. Were other adults involved with this decision? Did all troop adults agree with this decision?

 

ScouterPaul said:

"The Scout was offered alternative solutions before being asked to leave the Troop. The Mother refused all solutions. "

Can you say what alternatives? I gathered from the article that other men stepped forward to be responsible for the young man and that was not an option.

 

Scoutparent,

Some of the autistic websites I have read say that highly functioning autistic people do live on their own as functioning citizens.

You are right that many if not most ADD/ADHD children are gifted. That is part of the paradox in dealing with them, they are gifted in some areas then have these behavior problems.

 

When I first started thinking my child as ADHD, our school actually would not comment on it. They have been the complete opposite of so many schools that insist a child should be on medication. They were cooperative in filling out the surveys for the private counselor we saw.

 

I constantly monitor my son's medication and dosage. He has medication "holidays" and I can see big difference. Luckily his only problems off the medication is related to doing schoolwork, it does not affect social behaviors.

 

My son does have a tendency to be violent. Usually I'm the target. He has gotten into a few minor scrapes at school when the teasing goes too far (often the teasing is just because he is short and act immaturely).

 

On a broader subject, if you are working with a child who has behavioral problems, remember that often the children are very angry with themselves if they slip up about something. Then they lash out even more. I have found that if I let my son know he is angry at himself and I know that is why he is lashing out, it seems to settle him down. He still must suffer the consequences of his actions. I let him know (after he calms down) it's okay to be angry and mad, but you don't hurt other people or tear up things because of it.

 

[eisely 13]

There is not nearly enough information provided in the newspaper story to judge anybody's actions in this matter. I think that Bob White's questions are on point and he places a greater burden on the SM for letting the situation continue up to summer camp without apparently finding ways to deal with the issues of this boy. It also smells like this is a mom looking for people to sue. There is a lot to this that we do not know. I suspend judgment.

[evmori 11]

Bob,

Excellent questions!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10