Executive Power

[jcats001 10]

This question is somewhat complex, and as SM I should share some of the blame for maybe being too demanding. What I would like to know after the scenio below is what should I have done differently.

 

The troop had a campout set for this past weekend. We meet Wed. night & I, do to an immense amount of things going on never got a chance to check up on the patrols going. I got the signup sheet after most everyone else was gone.

 

In short, there was 17 boys, including 1 SPL, no other leadership youth until 1 other later on in the evening. There was originally 5 adults, but 2 backed out & 1 is fairly new to troop camping. Also, of the 17 boys 5 were new scouts with less than 2 months withs us. 3 scouts were 2nd year scouts less than 2nd class rank, and when fooling around starts, they are right there in the middle of it. Also, the next morning upon checking the weather, the forcast was for low temps, 40's, heavy rain, and lighting.

Also, we had a ziti fundraiser the previous Sat. night & the camping equipment was all but, inaccessible.

 

I was concerned about the troop's preparadness and e-mailed all members going to have a manditory Fri. meeting, to pack up, discuss food, gear, & safety. I got several angery responses, some replying that those families had other things to do than attend a meeting that I called on a whim, and that they had lives outside of scouts. The upshot was that 1 father was coming on Fri. to help.

 

I was rather a bit upset by the responses and the lack of concern that those families had in regards to their sons safety. I didn't feel some of the boys were at all ready for camping in an open field during a lighting storm. I cancelled the event.

 

The outcome was that the CC convinced me to go anyways. And invites were sent out via e-mail stating where & when we were to meet. I believe this undermined my credibility and actually made some of the families angerier, because it was on, then canceled by me, then set up by the CC, who then convinced me to take over again.

 

Upon arrival in the pouring rain & 39 degree weather with wind chill down to 30 degerees with sideways blowing rain due to the wind, we set up a large canopy. All told we were there about 2 hours before the 5 scouts took a vote to cancel, which we then did. Oh, there was 3 inches of rain water on the ground.

 

The next day in the paper, 20 kids from local school crewing (rowing)teams were taken to local hospitals for hypothermia. Some of them had not even gone into the boats yet.

 

This was the scenio for this weekend. This is what I thought & did. I have the thought that, driven by 1 father, a group of 4 or 5 want to have me removed as SM. I think and based on what I saw, know, I was right, 2 of the 5 were not prepared for the weather and if more had come I may have been traveling to the hospital with hypothermic instead of lighting charred scouts.

 

As SM, what would you have done different ? Also, What would you do if these 4 or 5 "gentlemen" wanted to have you removed as SM ?

 

I am scheduled for retirment by my choice in Oct. although no one else has yet stepped forward, (I gave notice to the troop last Oct.). Also, I use the term "gentlemen" loosely as one, when I called him to discuss his nasty e-mails, hung up the phone on me.

 

Please, let me know what you think. It's not who was right or wrong, I guess, more to the point it was what should have been done to prevent this from happening again. Also, who should have the power to cancel an event in the case such as I did ? SM, CC, committee ?

 

Thanks !

[eagle90 125]

This seems like a timing problem to me. Too many last minute changes and decisions. In our troop weekend campout rosters are set ten days before the event. This gives me adequate time to check on meals, transportation, and leadership (both junior leaders and adults). If anything needs to be adjusted there is adequate time to do so and inform the members as soon as is practical. Tour permits must be in well before the event in any case.

 

If you feel you have inadequate leadership and/or supervision it is your responsibility to either get additional help or cancel the event. Did the CC who encouraged you to go join you? I wouldn't be pressured if I felt my troop was not adequately prepared or led.

 

I see no reason for your removal. Instead of using their energies in that direction, perhaps these fathers should have been at your side trying to provide a better program for their own sons.

 

 

[Mike Long 10]

Part of the responsabilities of the Scoutmaster to to ensure the delivery of a safe and effective program. You are well within your rights to call extra meetings to prepare for trips that you don't feel the troop is prepared for. You are also well within your rights to cancel trips you don't think the troop is prepared for, especially if there are potentially life threatening situations involved. Safety first.

 

The more thing change the closer you get to d-day the far greater the chances something will go wrong. If there is a massive flurry of last minute changes consider cancelling because you are not prepared.

 

For us the Scoutmaster OR tour leader are the only ones who can cancel a trip. They are the individuals directly responsable for the trip. Not only that, I would have a BIIIIIIIIIG problem with the CC going around me to keep a trip alive that I killed because of safety and prepardness issues. Especially if the CC wasn't even going. If I kill a trip I will not attend it, period.

 

As far as the people who want to remove you as SM. One has to ask what else do they have an issue with? I can't imagine that they would get so angry over one trip. There must be something more there than that.

 

Next time.

1. Was this a scheduled trip weeks in advance? Be sure you have scheduled trips published well in advance including as much detail as you can get. It sounds like the who, what, when, where, how much's were not covered until the last minute. If they were then I'm sorry for my misunderstanding.

 

2. Be prepared. use the meeting before your trip to finalize plans. You know adult supervision, tour permits, permission slips, attendance roster, gear, food ect. If the details are not settled by then (or sooner) then it doesn't happen.

 

3. Troop gear is the domain of the Quartermaster. Where was he in this?

 

4. Be sure the committee knows who has the authority to cancel trips. Also get some help in preparing for trips from now on, like a transportation coordinator, ASM assigned to the Quartermaster ect.

 

5. Send out a letter to the families notifing them that every adult is an unpaid volunteer also you expect everyone involved with this troop to set a good example and a scout is courteous. A simple "we are sorry but we really can't make it to this meeting." is sufficient answer.

[Weekender 10]

If it were me and the committee came and asked me to step down then I would do so. Otherwise, stay till October and step down regardless of the status of the search (or lack there of) for a new SM.

 

As far as the campout, I'm big on doing whatever you can to make it work but when it comes to safety you, as scoutmaster, have to be able to pull the plug. I think your first mistake was giving into pressure from the committee. I think I would have told them that if they wanted the campout to go then they would have to do it themselves. I bet none would have done it. I've found that some of the most vocal people are the ones that give the least effort to the troop. If the one father has a problem with you being there tell him to have the committee ask you for your resignation and you will gladly step aside.

 

As the tour leader at the camp, you had both the right and the responsibility to make a judgement call on safety and call the campout if necessary. I don't think a vote was the way to go. What would you have done if they voted to stay when you knew it wasn't safe?

 

Keep doing your best and have your bags packed in September. Maybe you should ask the committee to consider the father who seems to know everything for the vacant SM slot. Disappear at least until January, if your're there they will turn to you and make the new scoutmaster's job more difficult.

[jcats001 10]

This reply is to Mike Long. Mike, to the best of my knowledge, there was nothing wrong with this group prior to this past Wed. As a matter of fact I'd just purchased some new equipment to go backpacking with. The main "gentleman" involved in the SM replacement activities, has similiar gear, and like all "gearheads" was drooling over the stuff I got. No angery comments, remarks, no nothing up until Thurs. afternoon when the "Let's Bash The SM session" began.

 

Thanks, Any other suggestions or ideas ?

 

 

[jcats001 10]

Weekender, I understand your point about the scouts voting on should we stay or not. I will be honest, after the bashing I got about the cancellation, I am afraid I was alittle gun shy to cancel again.

 

Credibility issue, ie. on, then I cancel, then CC setup again, then convinces me to assume leadership again, then canceling after a couple of hours.

 

I will say this. It was a Camporee and no plans in case it rained, and other troops, including some heavy duty scout camping troops were packing up & leaving while the vote was being taken. I guess maybe at that point if the vote was to stay, I'd have vetod anyways. I was worried about the other bashing adults to come looking for me & my judgement was clouded. I have overcome that now.

 

Due to the fantastic response in answers about my situation, I feel that I will continue until Oct. and see what happens then. I will not let that 1 father get me down, nor will I allow it to damage the Troop.

 

Say, Any of you Troops out there need a really good ASM ?

 

Thanks again !

[Mike Long 10]

I just can't see getting that worked up over one trip that went wrong. Ah well, some folks look for excuses to complain or are easy to set off. I would think that several successes woulf offset the occasional foul-up and your good record would be enough to satisfy the troop.

 

I think the big thing to do is sit down with the PLC and Troop Committee and do a post-mortem of the trip and create some action items of good and bad things that happened and re-visit who does what. Be sure your youth leaders understand your thought process anf why's of you decisions. Someday they will be making these same decisions and it will help them to make them. Make it a learning experience. What really matters is that everyone is safe and they all learn from the experience for next time.

[Rooster7 11]

jcats001,

 

Most productive and useful statement goes to Mike Long:

 

I think the big thing to do is sit down with the PLC and Troop Committee and do a post-mortem of the trip and create some action items of good and bad things that happened and re-visit who does what.

 

No. I would not resign over a single incident.

 

However, given the aforementioned facts, I do believe you were at fault on several issues.

 

1) If you felt it was unsafe, you should not have gone. Did you really attempt to setup tents in an open field during a lightning storm? Your post seems to imply that you knew this was going to be a possibility. Regardless, it sounds as if you had good enough reason to stay home [ill-prepared Scouts, bad weather, lack of leadership].

 

2) While the Committee Chairman is wrong for circumventing your authority, you allowed it to happen [at least in part], by participating on the trip. You never should have reversed your decision. Stand your ground and let the chips fall where they may.

 

3) You should have a good idea of who's going and who's not at least two weeks ahead of time. This will prevent "last minute" meetings, which tend to "irk" folks.

 

[eisely 13]

I agree with everyone else who says you should stay on until your planned departure in October. You did the smart thing in canceling the trip, but a less smart thing in letting the CC over ride you. This troop committee, yourself, and other involved adults need to have a serious conversation about the authority of the scoutmaster in such matters.

 

Mike Long's suggestion to have the PLC discuss it is very sound. Much is learned by all in such discussions. Other adults should not be part of that discussion.

 

It is always a disappointment to cancel a trip, but safety is the paramount consideration. A troop I was with in Southern California several years ago planned a weekend of backpacking in what is now Joshua Tree National Park. They drove almost four hours to get there Friday evening, got up on Saturday morning, looked at the sky, consulted with the ranger about the local forecast and returned home that morning. That weekend the area was hit with an unseasonal early major storm. Other non scout hikers had to be rescued. Right call, but a disappointment nevertheless. My name will never appear on a tour permit where I do not have the clear authority to make such decisions.

[ScoutPro 10]

If you dont succeed try again, you learn from your mistakes. Stick it out and learn from this. I would try to sit down with the committee and ask for some help and not place blame as there is plenty to go around. I find it too often the case that parents like to **** but arent willing to participate. Sometimes they even think I get paid for this and its my job therefore they have the right.

 

I would also get the committee to draft bylaws to cover all these types of issues and get them published and keep them updated. Set rules and expectations for the CC to clearly define what needs to be done prior to a camping trip. I would not quit and would stick it out until Oct. but they can always fire you and find someone new in which case you can at least say you tried.

 

[FScouter 24]

I like post-mortems. Note the problems and bad stuff. But list all the good things that happened and the fun too, so you can repeat the successes.