Why the Rush

[Bob White 20]

Ed,

My point, with all due respect, is that it is not your decision. It is up to the patrol members to decide who is best equipped to be the Patrol Leader, not you.

 

If the patrol wants a 12-year old First Class Scout so be it. Perhaps they will choose a 13-year old Tenderfoot, or maybe a 16-year old Eagle. The choice is theirs not yours. Nothing you will find in any of the scouting program resources says anything differnet. Your personal feelings about the leadership ability are irrelevant and in my personal opinion you underestimate the ability of a boy to rise to the occassion, and you underestimate your ability to teach a 12-year old the basic skills of leadership.

 

Every scout scout in your troop hangs with a group of friends at school (a patrol) and each of those groups has informally chosen a boy who they follow. They play the games he helps them choose, they gather he he says to, they probably get together on weeklends to do stuff from time to time. That group leader can be 11 or 12 or 13 etc.. If they can do it outside of scouts, why can't they do it in scouts?

 

Bob

 

[Bob White 20]

These words like "rush", "push", etc. bother me. Advancement is a matter of planning, training and testing, often when the scout doesn't even realize that advancement was happening.

 

On our last outing, with 2 new scout patrols who were oon there first tent camp out, the new scouts completed the following requirements while camping.

 

Tenderfoot, 1,2,3,4a,4b,9,11,

Second Class 2b,2c,

First Class 4a,4b(2 scouts),4c,4d,4e(2scouts),8a

 

Thats 13-15 of 52 requirements to reach first class (not counting SM Conference and BOR). Not because we rushed them (we didn't), but because they were prepared to do them by the things we learned at the troop meeting, then we stood by to catch them doing things right. These scouts are 6 weeks into the program and they are pumped.

 

Bob(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[sctmom 11]

Bob,

On this campout, did an adult or older boy go up to the new scouts and say "show me that you are packed right"? Or "show me how to whip the ends of a rope"?

 

 

 

 

[Bob White 20]

Sctmom,

On Saturday morning the Troop Guides and the Patrol Leaders did a shakedown of the scouts backpacks. First the scout got to tell what he did right and what he thought he could have done better. Then the Patrol Leader got to say what he thought the scout did correctly and what he thought could be improved. Lastly the Troop Guide tells the scout what a good job he did and then recommends to the Patrol Leader things to look for when they get to the next pack.

 

We follow a very rigid rule of leadership in that a scout is only corrected by their Patrol Leader. Other scouts and adults only say positive things. This keeps a boy from being criticized multiple times for one thing,and insures he gets more compliments than criticisms. The only exception is if a scout is in danger of hurting himself or someone else.

 

The whipping and fusing was started as a demenstration at the last campout in a cabin, and then completed this campout as a project to clean-up some troop gear. (Somehow, whenever we get new scouts, the troop's rope supply keeps getting the whippings cut off and they need to be repaired. Very strange indeed.)

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[sctmom 11]

Bob, the reason I ask is that my son went on his first campout. The second day an adult was working with the boys on Joining Badge and Tenderfoot, says "Did you present yourself to your leader properly dressed and packed yesterday? Oh, you didn't have anyone check you pack? Oh, well, do it next time."

Some people go by the theory of the boy must approach someone to get signed off on this. I see that as a goal, but these first few months the boys are doing good to remember their own names! They are so excited they forget about getting signoffs.

 

Also, what is "properly packed" when we aren't backpacking? That you have clean underwear? That you can close your bag and pick it up?

 

[Bob White 20]

sctmom,

You ask good questions.

 

We look at two things.

1. What did you bring.

2. How did you bring it.

 

We want to see that you used the personal packing list from the scout handbook and brought only the gear it listed and clothing to match the weather.

 

We want to see a bag of bags. Whether you use a backpack, a day pack, a duffel bag, whatever. We want everything in the outer bag separated, organized, and protected by innerbags. Those can be stuuf sacks, zip locks, bread wrappers, lawn bags, etc..

 

We look for personal gear to be either on your body, in your pocket, or in your pack. The only thing on the tent floor is your pad and your sleeping bag.

 

Hope this helps,

Bob

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori 11]

Mike,

Good point about following for 1 year. I guess my argument is not all 12 year old 1st Class Scouts are ready to be PL's. In my Troop, we use QM as a starting position for the new 1st Class Scouts. I feel this give them a sense of responsibility without all the pressure.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[Weekender 10]

As always there is a lot of very good advice on the forum. For those of you working with new boys in your troop and not sure what to do the following URL has a campout plan that is a good jumping off point. Obviously it will not be a perfect fit for everyone or every troop but it's a place to start. We are modifying it fo rour first campout with a new boy patrol and incorporating quite a bit of older scout participation.

 

http://www.usscouts.org/boyscouts/BSA101.htm

 

 

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Bob, since I am somewhat in "learning mode" along with sctmom, and want to know some things so I can tell whether a prosective troop for my son is well-run, I have a question: On the idea of a "bag of bags" (which I do recall from Philmont and Appalachian Trail backpackers back in the last century)and keeping the tent floor clear, how are these ideas imparted to the new boys prior to their first shakedown? Is it all in the handbook? (My son's handbook is still the Webelos book.) Is there a training session run by the troop guide? An instructor? The PL? An adult? Is anything provided in writing? If I recall correctly, when I was a boy my father (as ASM then SM) had periodic training sessions about backpacking as he went about the process of transforming us from being a cabin-camping troop to a backpacking troop. But it seems to me that how he did it may not have fully complied with the idea of "boy run" or the "patrol method." He was (and remains, at age 75 and lead trainer of our council's Philmont crews) a great teacher of Scouts, but now I wonder if the current method is more for the adults to make sure the older boys have the necessary knowledge and training skill to teach the younger boys, rather than doing it directly.

If I recall correctly, my father did have the SPL/ASPL-types do the shakedown inspections under his supervision, at least after we had been to Philmont. (That was part of my father's program, nobody in the troop had ever been to Philmont before, so one year we had the SM, 2 ASM's (which he still was) and about 10 boys go, as one full crew and part of a second.)

[Bob White 20]

NJScouter,

 

In my son's troop, they do a a special meeting (during a regular troop meeting night)with the new scouts and there parents, where the Troop Guides put on a packing demonstration. They talk about what equipment is needed the first year, where to buy and how to save expenses. They also go over the personal packing list in the handbook and show how to pack as a bag of bags.

 

Then the scouts go play a game while I (as the ASM for the New Scout Patrols) talk to the parents about the purpose of the scout uniform and answer any questions they have (now that they have a few meetings under their belt).

 

Bob

 

 

[KoreaScouter 13]

Okay, here's a notion that we've collectively hinted at, but not actually come out and said.

 

If BSA maintains that Scouts who make First Class in their first year stay with the program longer, why are we assuming that the reason they stayed is because they made First Class? Why not consider the possibility that the reason they stayed is because their troops run a good program, and THAT'S WHY they made First Class in their first year?

[Bob White 20]

I think that is what the BSA is saying KoreaScouter. the amount of activity the scout will take part in as he earns First Class hooks him on the program. First Class First Year is a program blueprint for the units to use.

 

Bob White

[Bob White 20]

I think that is what the BSA is saying KoreaScouter. the amount of activity the scout will take part in as he earns First Class hooks him on the program. First Class First Year is a program blueprint for the units to use.

 

Bob White

[evmori 11]

Bob,

Are their any stats to back the 1st Year 1st Class program?

 

Ed

[LongHaul 10]

Bob White,

You have stated several times that the level of expertise or level of accomplishment is set at a boys best. You quote the book often, and this is a good thing we write things out so everybody knows the rules. Where is it written that the bar is set at a boys best. Is this just an interpritation taken form the oath?