tjhammer 10 Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 DedDad says:But really, lets talk about tactics, you have some memorable ones like 50% vote (I mean plurality) is a valid moral, trouble with telling the truth, plagiarizing gay sites for fun and profit in your spare time, murder is relative, and every bodies favorite Baden-Powell was gay! Maybe I should start a stand-alone thread on your pro-perversion agenda; we havent even cracked the surface of your mistruths about BSA policy and the Supreme Court Case. OK, here''s your chance to explain your attack. Let's not muddy up the other thread, but if you want to prove your point that I'm a liar, morally bankrupt, etc etc, here's the place for you (and any others that see it that way) to make their case. A note to the moderator, I'm quite comfortable defending myself on this, and do not mind the "personalization" of the debate. DedDad, you're a bully. Plain and simple. And if you ignore a bully, they never grow up. So I'm not going to ignore your bully tactics. You think because you say something (particularly with flair and over and over) that it must be true. You've called me a liar (haven't we been through this before on this board, with you making the exact same attack and then failing to back it up?). Show where I have lied. Even once. If you can, Ill be happy to apologize. Until then, put up or shut up. The only examples you have given thus far (and I assume the only ones you will come up with again) are where you feel that I have mischaracterized your statements. I stand by every characterization I have made of any of your statements, and any time I have restated them without using the exact words you use, I have still done so without materially changing your actual position. You claim that I believe we should just follow whatever 51% of the world thinks. I've clearly, and repeatedly, said that it's not that simple. Yes, morality is relative. And yes, societies base their morals on a plurality of opinion. But I've explained many times before that it's a lot more complicated than just taking a vote. You're still attacking me because I cut and paste a paragraph, all but the introductory and summary sentences of which was a quote by B-P, into a previous post. And you think that because I found this B-P quote in an article written by a gay writer on the very subject we've been debating somehow I'm just spewing (or lifting) the radical gay agenda that everyone who disagrees with you is pushing. Murder is relative? Please, I'm not even going to justify that one with a response. B-P might have been gay? Yes, I made that point, and said that there was considerable circumstantial evidence to support the case, and that three of the four most popular biographies on the great British war hero and founder of Scouting spend considerable time on the very possibility. Pro-perversion agenda? I'm not sure which part of this I should argue. As I recall, the other threads have come to a halt while we wait for you to explain how you make your leap from gay = perversion and again from perversion = immoral. And "agenda"... thinking that everyone who thinks differently than you is somehow in a coordinated agenda to ruin the world is paranoid and naive. I have said on several occasions that I find much of the radical gay activist's in this country to be silly. I think they are about as far out of the mainstream as you, and I dont consider myself to be any closer to their position than I am to yours. mistruths about BSA policy and the Supreme Court Case -- Well, this is a new one. What mistruths about the BSA policy and Supreme Court Case? I have said on many occasions that I agree with the Supreme Court decision to allow us to decide our own standards. I provided a link to the court transcript and highlighted parts of it; I must have missed the part where I've been accused of misrepresenting it. Stop trying to be a bully. It doesn't work, and it isn't very Scoutlike. I feel very passionately that we are wrong as an organization, and that our policy is causing great damage to us and to the boys we are entrusted with. You believe diametrically the opposite. I have never challenged your right to believe that. If you want to make things up about me, please explain them in great detail in this thread. Now's your chance. Let's not make this thread about anything BUT tjhammer's credibility, that way we can get back to the real debate. Link to post Share on other sites
Dedicated Dad 10 Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 (haven't we been through this before on this board, with you making the exact same attack and then failing to back it up?). Show where I have lied. Even once. If you can, Ill be happy to apologize. Until then, put up or shut up. HeheheI should have read this thread sooner than today. Last time you asked me to demonstrate where you lied it went addressed by you on the last post on this thread. Since youre caught red handed yet again in this challenge, I expect your admission of lying included in your apology before we can go on to your other challenges, otherwise you remain the same truth-challenged purveyor of perversion youve always been. Standing ready with high boots and towel firmly in hand. Link to post Share on other sites
tjhammer 10 Posted March 15, 2002 Author Share Posted March 15, 2002 What in the world are you talking about? Link to post Share on other sites
Dedicated Dad 10 Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 this thread Link to post Share on other sites
Dedicated Dad 10 Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 Whoops, I see a typo too, it should readit went unaddressed by you Link to post Share on other sites
tjhammer 10 Posted March 15, 2002 Author Share Posted March 15, 2002 Amazing. Talk about arguing over "what your definition of 'is' is"... the only response I feel appropriate is this:I stand by every characterization I have made of any of your statements, and any time I have restated them without using the exact words you use, I have still done so without materially changing your actual position. I didn't leave anything "unaddressed"... we completely discussed this in previous threads. You've really got some nerve hurling your accusations and name calling. Link to post Share on other sites
Dedicated Dad 10 Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 Do you have this much of a problem admitting when youre wrong in other aspects of your life? You said: Show where I have lied. Even once. If you can, Ill be happy to apologize. And you didnt. And yet another credibility issue surfaces, when will it ever stop? Link to post Share on other sites
tjhammer 10 Posted March 15, 2002 Author Share Posted March 15, 2002 I wish to apologize to members of this forum for allowing myself to "get personal". I have tried my best to remain on the issues of the debate; I believe the issues require intellectual thought, analysis and honest conversation. I also recognize that this is usually a debate between well-intentioned, honest Scouters that simply disagree on the issues. It seems that I have allowed myself to be baited into little more than a bickering contest between personalities, and I regret that I took the bait. Link to post Share on other sites
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