Any other issues??

[Bob White 20]

Sctmom,

 

The rules on how meds are handled in scouting changed not to long ago. The old standard was that all meds were given to the adult leaders for storage and distribution. That standard no longer exists.

 

The current BSA regulation on meds is that they are the responsibility of the individual taking them and of their parents. If the scout is not capable of self-administration then the parents need to there to administer the medication.

 

HOWEVER, if the adult leader agrees to it he or she may accept the responsibility of supervising the medication. But, the leader is not required to take on that responsibility and the BSA does not recommend that they do.

 

I understand that this will create problems for some scouts however, the the risk of improper storage and distribution and the expectation that a leader was an amateur pharmacist created to many opportunities for the scout to be improperply medicated and was a liability problem for the leaders.

 

Bob

[SagerScout 10]

I was surprised at the medication paragraphs making kids responsible for their own medications - as pointed out, ADHD meds are essentially speed and can be peddled for good prices on the streetcorner. Doesn't seem smart to put that in the hands of a young kid at summer camp in a setting with a bunch of other kids, some of whom might not be perfect Boy Scouts, if you know what I mean.

 

On the other hand, as mom of a severe asthmatic, I am MUCH more comfortable with my son having his inhaler in his pocket. I also greatly appreciated the fact the his former ASM (a doc) went to camp with the troop and carried my son's Epipen with HIM. I felt very fortunate that he was willing to cover for me during the time I wasn't there.

 

But then again not many kids would volunteer to take bronchodilators for fun, at least not twice since they can really give you a killer headache. So I wasn't worried anyone would be rifling through the footlocker looking for the inhaler.

 

Now, my son's new troop has 4, count them, 4 kids with severe asthma in it, and a couple more mild asthma patients. In order for these kids to have any outdoor education at all, safely, the leaders will frankly HAVE to help make sure they get their meds. My son is one of them, of course, and part of the reason I'm a volunteer is to ensure that he DOES have a chance to do camping without undue danger. The scoutmaster's 3 sons are the other severe patients, and he had to form a new troop and volunteer as scoutmaster in order to find a setting where his kids health conditions could be accommodated. (They were asked to leave one troop as they objected to the idea that they should contribute dues and raise funds for high adventure outings that their kids COULD NOT attend.)

 

While I find that a sad commentary on their former troops, it has worked out in the long run as this new troop shows a lot of promise. The older boys are wonderful with teaching the younger boys, which I had never witnessed before - in other troops the older boys seemed far more interested in listening to Korn and hazing the younger kids for their small size. The scoutmaster strongly supports a boy-run troop and only steps in when it appears that there may be a safety issue - but he does include emotional safety and does not allow name-calling or harassment. We have tons of fun with these kids, they are far and away the nicest bunch I've ever met. The troop is new and small at this point but we're growing.

 

Julia

[sctmom 11]

"I understand that this will create problems for some scouts however, the the risk of improper storage and distribution and the expectation that a leader was an amateur pharmacist created to many opportunities for the scout to be improperply medicated and was a liability problem for the leaders. "

 

I do understand this. That's why the one scout did not go, the parents know the leaders most likely do not know how to mix and administer the medications. For a weekend, often the parents can go. I do hope that summer camps have approriately trained people to handle the kids with very special needs.

 

Also, many kids with ADHD do not have to take their medicine when not at school. Which may explain part of the chaos on Scout campouts --- LOL.

 

Should BSA follow the GSUSA rule of having a trained "first aider" on all trips? To me this sounds like a good idea, not just hoping the adults know first aid.

 

 

[evmori 11]

While the BSA doesn't recommend an adult leader accept the responsibility of handling Scout meds, I feel it IS the adult leader responsibility to handle them. When we go to summer camp, my Advancement Chairman handles all the meds. He is a nurse. When we hold our pre-summer camp meeting, he gets a list of the all the medication from the parents. He also advises them he will handle administering the medication.

 

Letting a 12 year old be responsible for taking medication on his own seems - for the lack of a better word - stupid. These guys have a tough enough time remembering to put on their socks!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[Bob White 20]

Ed,

 

Many scout leaders do not want the liability exposure of handling medications, and with all the different storage procedures involved and various dosages at various times it can become very easy during the day for errors to take place.

 

Most leaders sore meds in a lock box in their car, tent or trailer. Did you know that many common medications loss their potency when stored above average room temperature while others become toxic.

 

While I agree some leaders are willing to handle meds and others even feel it is their responsibility to do so, without proper training it is dangerous to the scout and the adult. The BSA does not offer pharaceutical training and so does not mandate that the leaders take responsibility for medications. in most cases the boy (even a 12 year old boy) knows far more about what he takes and how to take care of it than most leaders will. The BSA doesn't say a boy who can't self administer is on his own. They are saying to parents that if your son cannot self administrate,. the leader is not required to, YOU should go camping to help meet the medical needs of your child.

 

This is not a punishment for the child or the parent. This is to insure proper medical care is available to the scout, without endangering the scout leader. In other words if a scout is accidentally incorrectly medicated the scout could be injured and the scoutleader could be in deep legal trouble trouble with the family.

 

Bob

[evmori 11]

Bob,

As a leader, I don't want the responsibility of NOT handling the meds. Some of these Scouts are too young to realize the importance of doing this properly! Imagine a Scout forgets to take his meds in the morning so decides to double up in the afternoon. This spells disaster!

 

All the training one needs to administer meds is to read the prescription on the bottle.

 

Requiring a parent to go on camping trips just because their son needs his medication could be punishment for both the parent & child. It could also be detrimental to the Troop.

 

As for my Troop, we will continue as we have in the past unless the BSA passes a regulation - not a suggestion - that tells us to stop.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[Chippewa29 13]

The challenge Scout in our troop was taken off his ADHD meds last summer (they weren't working and stunted his appetite and thus, growth). Now he has to take some natural vitamin supplements several times a day. While they don't help the ADHD, his appetite has increased quite a bit in recent months and he has started to grow (almost 13 and he is still the smallest kid in troop, including the brand new 11 year olds). His parents send the supplements with him on the campouts and he knows how to take them himself, but the adults have to remind him or else he won't remember (or simply won't) take them after each meal. However, when it is his turn to dishes, he seems to remember and takes about 20 minutes in an effort to get out of as many dishes as he can (just like any normal kid). That is the next step in his progress.

[sctmom 11]

As I watched my son's patrol camping this weekend, I tried to decide could you tell the ADHD kids from the non-ADHD kids. For the most part, NO! LOL

Some of the behavior is "just boys".

 

Take 10 boys about the same age (11 to 13), put them outside, tell them they are "on their own", and WATCH. Those with allergies can get hyper from the pollen and other allergens outside (may not be sneezing either). Then some haven't had their medicine for ADD/ADHD. Not enough sleep. The "power" goes to their heads. The "mob mentality" takes over and suddenly the total IQ drops to that of a single 2 year old. It's mind boggling when you think about it! LOL

 

[Bob White 20]

Evmori,

 

No need to be so hostile. I was just saying that the guidelines have changed and the Scoutleader is no longer required to handle the meds. No on said you can't.

 

I included the explaination for the guideline because I thought readers may wonder why it was changed.

 

Although I agree that in many cases scouts are capable of handling meds, there are other situations where they are not.

 

I appreciate that the BSA no longer insists I take on a responsibility that could have grave consequences for my family but they give me the option on a case by case basis to decide on my own.

 

Bob

 

 

[jmcquillan 10]

Bob said...

 

The BSA doesn't say a boy who can't self administer is on his own. They are saying to parents that if your son cannot self administrate,. the leader is not required to, YOU should go camping to help meet the medical needs of your child.

 

Ed said...

 

Requiring a parent to go on camping trips just because their son needs his medication could be punishment for both the parent & child. It could also be detrimental to the Troop.

 

I think we need to make a distinction here between levels and types of medication, and perhaps talk about self-adminstration.

 

At the beginning of each year, we would ask parents, as part of the "get to know you and your son" process, to tell us everything we needed to know about any medical problems their son might have. Self-administration of medication was always a part of this conversation. Could the boy take the medication by himself? Would he remember when it was time? With adult leaders holding on to the medication, the time issue would, hopefully, always be taken care of, for the adults would see to it that the boy had his medication "on-time". Of course, there still is one heck of a large responsibility placed squarely on the shoulders of the leader just by virtue of that task. The type of medication was even more of an issue. Was it pills that the boy could swallow without trouble? Was it some form of liquid medication requiring measurement? Or, in the worst case, was it some form of injection?

 

With pills, we would ascertain from Mom & Dad that the boy could take them himself and knew when to take them. We'd work with the boy using this knowledge. With liquid, we could do the same, but liquid medications required careful measurement and then cleaning of the implements used. Still, leaders could handle this, if they felt comfortable with it, and the parents were not required to come. They would, however, be encouraged. With injections, there was never any question. Mom or Dad would be required to go on the trip or outing, unless within the troop, and within the adult leader corp attending the function, there was an doctor, registered nurse, or paramedic professional who could, and would, take that responsibility with written and signed permission of the parents. In other words, the level of type of medication required can force the issue for parents attending and participating. Parents should be taking an active interest in their sons participation in Scouting right from the start, (or so we hope). But beyond parental interest in a sons life, parental participation should be, and must be, commensurate with the needs of the boy, and the boys capacity for taking things into his own hands. Scout leaders don't volunteer to be doctors, and we should not jeopardize ourselves by taking responsibilities that we aren't qualified for. Certain medication types and routines fall into this category.

 

As to summer camps, I think that most, if not all, summer camps in our area have at the least, a nurse on staff full-time, and sometimes a doctor. That pretty much takes care of the issue in that venue.

 

As a side note to the medication issue, in my time in Scouting, I've seen a marked increase in medications that must be kept with the scout at all times; i.e. inhalors and epi-pen injectors. In cases where these items are known to the Scout leaders, we can't take them and store them, neither can any medical staff. These may be life saving items. In those cases, we can do one of two things. We can require a parents attendance, or we can require that the parent sign a statement to the effect that the child knows how, where, and when to use the item. That may satisfy the sadly necessary legal issues. But still, vigilance on the part of adults in the area, who know the circumstances, can't be replaced.

 

Simple things like some pills can be handled fairly comfortably. But with all the variety of medications that we are all faced with these days, leaders may be increasingly faced with types that are beyond them, and parents may just need to face up to being more active with their sons in Scouting.

 

 

 

 

 

[evmori 11]

Bob,

Sorry if you thought I was getting hostile. I wasn't. With all the "I'll sue you" going on, I feel we as adults are in a better position to administer & control a Scouts meds that the Scout is.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[SagerScout 10]

For any of y'all who do opt to administer meds, I thought I'd pass along my procedure (developed from being a GS first-aider). I put each child's medicines in a big ziploc bag, and put a sticker on it. Whenever meds are dispensed, I note the date, time, and what medication it was. That way, if there were a question later about the meds I could answer it authoritatively. I've never had a problem.

 

The one time I had a girl who had a vision-threatening illness that required a tremendously complicated medication schedule, her mom volunteered to come along and chase her around with eyedrops, and we enjoyed her company and her help immensely. I WAS glad not to have to deal with that medication schedule - it made my schedule for my son (a mere FIVE medications) seem simple.

 

Most kids end up with no more than a three-times a day medication regimen and it really isn't all that tough to deal with, if you have an ounce of organization.

[KoreaScouter 13]

As a leader, I've had the whole gamut, from dispensing meds to escorting Scouts to the med tent to get them, to sending Scouts to the med tent. All those procedures are okay, and often dependent on who's running the particular camp.

 

My recommendation is to read the camp literature very carefully when you get it, including the section on meds and who stores/administers and raise the issue if you have one.

 

My experience with Scouts and meds is that we seem to be selling them short. Whether the Scout holds his own or goes to a medic for them, he still has to remember SOMETHING. And, by and large they have remembered in my experience. After all, we're not asking them to remember an occasionally practiced Scout fieldcraft skill, but something they do every day of their lives. They know better than we think they do what the consequences are if they don't get their meds...they're real, profound, and virtually immediate; whereas, not remembering to change your socks means you just wear yesterday's socks again.

 

While I share everyone's concern with liability and the well-being of the Scouts, there's a line beyond which it's an individual responsibility/ family matter, too. When the parents fill out the health history or the docs do the class 2 or 3, they (the parents/pros) need to let us know whether this campout/outing/whatever is feasible for this particular Scout on this particular med. If the workaround is parents coming on the campout as a med dispenser, so be it. I don't think leaders should be playing "nurse" by dispensing meds to the point where that role supplants the other "deliver the promise" things we're supposed to be doing out there. I don't mean to give the impression that I'm uncaring, but I come back to my assertion based on my experience that the Scouts are capable of handling a lot more responsibility than we may be giving them credit for. On selling their ADHD medicine to their buddies, last time I checked, that's called drug dealing. If he's not doing it out of the house (I presume he's not), then he likely won't do it on a Scout outing, either. If a Scout is doing this, his troop has problems way beyond who holds the meds.

 

An anecdote: one of our Scouts is prone to motion sickness -- great kid, he just tends to puke a lot. My approach: bring Dramamine, ziploc bags, or stay home...and the Dramamine and bags are his responsibility not mine. You know what? He comes on most of the outings, and has Dramamine and/or ziploc bags...imagine that.

[LongHaul 10]

As a SM and the father of two boys with ADHD that take Ritilan I have had the pleasure of being told by an Illinois State Police officer that my carring the meds, even in the original container COULD land me in jail for possetion of a controlled substance. The fact that I am their father plays a big factor in avoiding problems but Ritilan is so controlled that "Being in possetion of it with out a perscription made out to you" could get you busted. Being an Adult at camp administering controilled substances to minors who are not your child, when you are not licensed by that state to administer controlled substances could get you in trouble also. That said, I have my parents write a note mirroring what the lable says and giving me, by name, express permission to administer this drug. (I also have them include an ASM) Then I throw caution to the wind on this. We record each instance on a sheet kept with the drugs, time, boys name and which of the two of us dispensed the med. Inhalers are kept by the boy. I feel that a doctor thinks the boy should take this medication and boys need to be supervised when health or saftey is an issue.

[SagerScout 10]

On selling the ADHD meds, I'm less concerned about MY troop's scout - whom I know and love - selling it than some OTHER scout swiping it.

 

To some extent I agree with all those who point out that most kids of Scouting age should remember their own meds. However, some will either not remember or not want to be marked as different and those are the ones who may skip a dose or 3. The ADHD kids and those on psych meds will be in this list - the very ones you would like to be sure get their meds if they need them! (Although I agree that often ADHD kids do not need meds in a camp setting, and on a personal note my card-carrying ADHD kid did not use meds until his senior year in high school, so I'm not a big fan of meds for this alleged condition anyway. However, other kids with other psych issues DO need meds and often are loathe to admit it. )