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LeCastor

Looking Forward to Wood Badge

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~rolls eyes~

 

LeCastor - have a great time, and keep an open mind!

 

As for the rest: Funny enough, as the only Woodbadge trained person on the adult leadership roster in a former troop, and as someone who came through the ranks of cub scouting, and *gasp* as a woman, I was the one consistently advocating *for* a real patrol method and *for* actual boy leadership of a sort that even Kudu might have recognized (though grudgingly and with snarky comments, I'm sure), and *against* overwhelmingly adult-led garbage that killed the fun of scouting.

 

Maybe it is just me - but I rather think, people who go into WB with a good attitude and an open mind can learn a lot, or at the very least, have a good experience and meet others who are passionate about scouting.

 

 

 

 

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LisaBob writes:

 

I was the one consistently advocating *for* a real patrol method and *for* actual boy leadership of a sort that even Kudu might have recognized

 

Are you asserting in public forum, that you actually used your Wood Badge skills to train your Troop's Patrol Leaders to hike independently of other Patrols and camp without adult supervision?

 

If so, you may be the first person in the history of the Internet to do so. :)

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

"Make it. Boring. Call it. Fun."

 

 

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Well Kudu, I certainly advocated for stuff like that. I admit it was not all that effective - mine was the lone voice, and as a woman and outsider to their little clique, few were interested in hearing it. But yes, I tried.

 

Probably, without the benefit of WB, I wouldn't have done even that. I simply wouldn't have known enough about the boy scout program and I wouldn't have spent much (if any) time talking scouting with other scouters who actually care about this stuff. In large part because of WB, I knew that there were other ideas "out there" about what a boy scout troop could look like. Huh. Wood Badge, paving the way for people to think more deeply about what the patrol method really means. Go figure.

 

 

 

 

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"Not sure how I feel about the beads, probably they are a symbol of exclusion and elitism that is contrary to scouting's aims."

 

The beads were the sign of membership in a pretty exclusive club at one time. That was when it was by invitation only and the least senior learner might haven ten years as a SM.

 

It got considerably less exclusive in its second version starting in 1972.

 

Now that the goal is to have all active adults in Scouting's traditional programs take it as a matter of course as ASAP, it is far from exclusive. It is an expectation for active Scouters.

 

If you go into it with a bad taste in your mouth, you probably won't like much on the "menu," however well prepared and presented.

 

People who act elitist on the basis of being entitled to wear a training award would probably act that way in any case. "Special" people are that way. Just ask them. They're special.(This message has been edited by TAHAWK)

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@Lisabob, Well said and I totally agree with you here. I also went. We had one other adult in the troop who had also gone, but was never beaded. He tried to talk me out of going. I went anyway, and have been a thorn in his side ever since. I got a Scouting education. I started to push more of the boy lead, patrol method, and boys voting for their leadership. Not an adult choosing the SPL, and then the SPL choosing the PLs. That's the way it was. Now we have full boy lead, patrol method, boys only voting for their leadership. And it is working. I first wouldn't have known all about this if I hadn't gone to WB. I also met a lot of great and fantastic people in Council who've supported my quest. And now that I am not only beaded, but have Staffed, and am involved in a lot of Council, District and my area's activities, I am the person they all go to to ask those questions. So I have come a long way, and have a long way to go, but I am still educating myself, I still have loads to learn. I am now working on my BCS. I am working to bring my community scouting leaders together. Get them working together. I have also been there to tell the former leaders, that it's the scouting way or the hwy for them. Several have left. They have found it hard to work in an environment where they are no longer in charge, but the boys are.. The troop is better, and the scouts are doing great.. My Ticket was a hard worked one, that I still work hard to accomplish everyday. OA for example. Last year one of the goals was to get OA started up in the Troop. We had elections, 12 scouts were called out. None went to Ordeal. I went as an adult. But the parents weren't interested in helping. Now there is this big rush to make sure OA gets started and working int eh troop. Every boy wants to be involved. SO I am hopeful that this year I'll be traveling to Fellowship with full seats in my truck. Things are working. And it took IOLS and Woodbadge to get me there. I say IOLS, because I got my first taste of District activities at IOLS, I first met the Scouters that care. And that got me wanted to go to WB. And there I got a better taste of what's out there.. And now Staffing WB and NYLT mean more and more of that taste. I am organizing the first IOLS/BALOO, OWLS course ever in my area. Good people out there. Doing great things. Trying to make a difference within their scouting communities..

 

Bobwhite Mike

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Well Mike, there you go. We bobwhites know what's what.

 

Maybe that was Kudu's problem - he wasn't a bobwhite! ;)

 

 

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BOBWHITES! Covey up!

I used to be a Bobwhite, and a good....old and feeble...don't know...

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LeCastor writes:

 

"I have the Scoutmaster's Handbook 3rd Edition by Hillcourt and I've read both volumes. And I've read just about all of the Boy Scout Handbooks (BSA editions), including "Scouting for Boys." ... I don't discount putting this reading knowledge into practice...Sure, it's not like the WB that Kudu remembers."

 

LeCastor has done his homework. Maybe he will be the first person in the history of the Internet to bring back to his unit Wood Badge Patrols spaced B-P's 300 feet apart, and adult-free WB Patrol Hikes. :)

 

Most participants return as white blood cells: "Why does Kudu think WB participants' grasp of Scout leadership should be judged by how far apart their Patrol Leaders can space their Patrols, and how far they can hike their Patrols without 'adult association' on monthly campouts? Oh! He must have had a bad time at Wood Badge."

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

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Hey Kudu, you might want to sit down for this next part, take your time, settled in ok?

 

I took 21rst Century Wood Badge, as you well know, and I recently did not recharter with the Troop my son has aged out of because they do not follow the patrol method. The Scoutmaster has no clue as to how to do the Patrol Method and I got tired of trying to make suggesitions on how things should be done. The worst part of the whole story is he is the Training Chair for the Council and he is a joke.

 

One of my WoodBadge ticket items was builfing storage shelves in the church basment and painting them 4 different colors and having 4 sets of patrol equipment on those shelves and it lasted until the first campout then the stuff never did get back to the correct spots. THe requipment was all color coded, but that didnt seem to be a priority with the Quartermasters or the scoutmaster. I got tired of telling him the Quartermasters were supposed to be responsible for the condition of the basement and I would not have signed off any of them because they didnt do their jobs. He had some comment about them just being kids and what did I expect.

 

So, I left the troop, can't be associated with a bastardization of the Patrol Method and yes, I am a Wood Badge graduate.

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LeCastor,

 

Your attitude suggests a lot about the experience you're going to have: great!! I am on Wood Badge staff this August, and am also super excited (and nervous!) to be a Troop Guide, I want to give my patrol the best experience possible. My troop guide a couple years ago was pretty good, although not very accessible after the course was over, I plan to be there for my patrol whenever they need help.

 

I see you're in Wisconsin, you aren't by chance going to Northern Star Council WB are you?

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Hi Shepo1!

 

Thanks for the kind words. I try to keep a positive attitude and remember why I'm a Scouter...It's for the boys.

 

No, I won't be over in Minnesota for my Wood Badge experience. But I look forward to discussing how your experience was in, say, September. We'll both have had a wonderful time, I'm sure!

 

Also, thanks, Kudu, for acknowledging my having done the homework! I appreciate your enthusiasm for Scouting and keeping it for the boys.

 

It's kind of amazing how long this thread has become. I just wanted to say how I wanted to experience Wood Badge for myself.

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Kudu writes:

 

"Maybe he will be the first person in the history of the Internet to bring back to his unit Wood Badge Patrols spaced B-P's 300 feet apart, and adult-free WB Patrol Hikes."

 

Can't speak for other WB courses, but that is the way mine was run. Each patrol was spaced and camped quite a distance apart, easily 300 feet apart. And the patrol hike was just that: just the members of our patrol.

 

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Curious writes:

 

"Can't speak for other WB courses, but that is the way mine was run. Each patrol was spaced and camped quite a distance apart, easily 300 feet apart. And the patrol hike was just that: just the members of our patrol."

 

Curious,

 

Yes, 150-300 feet between Patrols is Baden-Powell's minimum standard for the Patrol System. Likewise regular Patrol Hikes (without other Patrols or "adult association") is the worldwide definition of the Patrol Method: The purpose of a Patrol is to go out on Patrol.

 

The question is how many Wood Badge participants return from Wood Badge and train their Patrol Leaders to space their Patrols 300 feet apart, and lead their Patrols on separate Patrol Hikes (if only during Troop campouts)?

 

1 in 1,000?

1 in 10,000?

1 in 100,000?

 

If even 1 in 1,000 WB participants actually brought Baden-Powell's Patrol System back to their units from Wood Badge, then the practical problems that result from holding elections every six months would be a more common topic of discussion on Scouting forums:

 

"Just got back from Wood Badge! Last month one of my Patrols went on a Hike and burned down a National Forest. This month I let them camp 300 feet away, but at 2 AM last Sunday they dropped a brick from a highway overpass, and it landed on the windshield of a state trooper's cruiser. The Patrol Leader easily won the popularity contest, but does not agree that he needs to move his Patrol from the "Yelling" to the "Gelling" stage of Group Development. Anyone have any suggestions?" :)

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

(This message has been edited by Kudu)

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Wood Badge (and NYLT) currently teach that the proper role of the adult is to, as quickly as possible, be in the background with all actual leadership being by the youth ("Enable") - to be a resource and mentor, not the leader.

 

The problem of adults not understanding their proper role has been present in Scouting from it's beginnings in the U.S. to the present date. Policy at first encouraged active adult program leadership, with youth acting an "noncoms" to the adult's "officer" role. However, B.S.A. publications from at least 1930 to the recent past devote considerable space to repeatedly discussing this problem and urging adults to behave. (My Council in 1949 [and others] set as its "Annual Goal" training Scouters to the end that all Troops be run on the basis of the "Patrol Method.")

 

There is no simple solution to this problem as society in general does not assign the leadership role to youth when adults are around. Also, many adults wrongly believe that skill proficiency is the objective and jump in to "help" each time a pancake is getting burned, not letting the youth find solutions. Finally, a good many adults are drawn to the program out of a misdirected desire to lead ("The King of the Commandos" syndrome).

 

I am aware of no Wood Badge course where the patrols camp together on the second weekend. I am aware of no NYLT course where the patrols camp together at any time. I would not be shocked to hear that they exist. I just have never head of them. If they exist, the Course Director needs retraining or replacing.

 

Boys hiking (or backpacking) totally bereft of adults would surely compel youth leadership but, as I have pointed out from personal experience in the 1950's, adults in the area need not be a problem IF they have been properly trained and held accountable for behaving.

 

In any case, the lawyers (on both sides) have insured that youth will not be sent off alone into the wilderness (natural or urban) on B.S.A. time, regardless of yearnings for past practices, real or imagined.

 

 

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"The question is how many Wood Badge participants return from Wood Badge and train their Patrol Leaders to space their Patrols 300 feet apart, and lead their Patrols on separate Patrol Hikes (if only during Troop campouts)?"

 

Apparently if you don't like the answer, then change the question? LOL Your new question really isn't a WB question. The problem with WB isn't the material, but rather the participants. Many participants attend not to learn, but to earn a set of beads.

 

I think TAHAWK explains it quite well. The problems facing units has nothing to do with Wood Badge. I look around at the units in my area and am frustrated by the number of troops that do nothing but car camping. Some units are nothing more than adult camping clubs that just happen to allow the boys to tag along. There is an over emphasis on Trail to First Class that makes many units nothing more than glorified Webelos.

 

These problems aren't caused by Wood Badge, nor will Wood Badge fix them. The leaders of these units are quite happy and no amount of training is going to dissuade them. They will hear what they want to hear regardless of what is taught in the syllabus.

 

Unfortunately, I've no solution to the problem. What I end up doing is quietly speaking with my fellow scouters about what it was like when I was a scout. I get them to thinking about their own scouting experiences. Not sure if its having an impact ....

 

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