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What Do You Want Out of BALOO, WeLOT, and IOLS?

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In the thread this spun off of,




The caps are to emphasize my question, and I ask because while I will teach what the book tells me to, I do want to make it relevant so that folks are getting the info they need.


I am particularly interested in what folks want out of BALOO since i teach that one at the moment.

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I remember doing Baloo several years ago.


I and another volunteer or two got rather frustrated when the instructor was talking about the importance of pack sleeping arrangements and the difference between Pack oversnights and family camps.


After drawing attention to their importance, it turns out he had a rather confused idea of his subject matter. In our efforts to understand these apparently critically important issues, we cross examined this poor volunteer until he was pretty helpless. A more senior trainer rescued him by giving a conse explanation of the issues.


I really had no desire to put the guy on the spot, but that's where he wound up anyway. I don't think he had a very good day.



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Well I can go into specifics of what was wrong in our Baloo course, but it had nothing to do with the overall course.. So I will just try to stay with the overall course.


All in All I think Baloo is well setup except I think too much time is spent on campfire program, and maybe not enough on cooking.. But it just may be the emphisis of the person doing the course.. But campfire program we spent more then an hour going into everything you can bring into a campfire, skits, songs, run-ons, jokes, cheers..blah blah.. It was well done, but could not help thinking this is stuff that a Pack does at any basic Pack meeting.. Just pull out the awards and put more in and you have your campfire program, any pack can pull this together with little trouble. Yet with cooking, we put together our lunch chicken wraps, someone cooked them, we ate them. Later we went out and cooked desert and while this was going on just causually talked.. Ok, what about estimating food for x amount of people, food storage, what food prep you can do ahead of time, how to break up food purchasing, how to streamline cooking for a crowd and getting food to people hot.. etc etc.. This may be just different personalities and what I think needs emphisis to what our course director thought needed emphisis..


IOLS / OWLS or Welot- I think I already commented on in the thread you split off from.. I can't wait for them to put the two together. I really don't think it is fair to send the webeloes leaders to the same course two day course twice and call it something different due to maybe a difference in program of about 1 1/2 hours.. Alot of district/councils are already combining them for good reason.. But, yes it is a fly over for those totally green, they will walk out of the course having been thrown so much information that little will be remembered, and it is a waste of time for those who know their scout skills.. The test-out is a good feature but few councils want to use it for varying reason. What I am proposing to our council I guess is not by the book, but since it is for those who would be allowed to test out.. I guess I would call it a different version of a test-out, rather then a different version of the IOLS course.

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I'll be taking it in a few weeks, so I hope it's fun.


I'm really not sure just what to expect. If we sit around discussing the difference between various BSA definitions, then I probably won't be too pleased.


If we spend most of the time outside learning how to do things that Cub Scouts will enjoy, then I'll probably be satisfied with the experience. I'll probably learn a couple of things I didn't know before.


If that part is done fairly well, then I'll probably be willing to sit inside and listen to a few definitions.

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Actually PM me specifics if you want to. I am always looking for ideas.



I know as someone who A) went thru IOLS (ok it was the old SMF course, I'm old) and B) worked at CSDCs and other large CS events (try 12K+, so large we had to have the 4th MarDiv send in staff reinforcements ;) ) I was kinda bored with BALOO. Good thing was that I met other leaders in the pack I was about to join. But it was a classroom BALOO with no outside work whatsoever, which defeats the purpose IMHO. Folks need to see what you are talking about.


Good luck and please tell me, either here or via PM what it is like.

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How about actual trained instructors that know the CURRENT material and the G2SS.


Don't read directly out of the books, I don't need a training course for that. Give the current proceedure for getting a tour permit and why,



Been thru too many courses where I know the material better than the instructor. I loved my IOLS training where the instructor when on and on about the fixed blade ban....hmmmm. He went on and on about minimum tent sizes.....hmmmmmmm. He went on and on about white gas stoves being banned.....hmmmmm. Knots???? Hard to respect the guy who is teaching you knots when you can tie them better than them......


Don't waste my time is a biggy. To attend training I have taken time away from family, pack, troop and crew.

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I took BALOO along with my husband and another Den Leader from our Pack.


They did a very good job of creating what a weekend campout would be like.

We broke up into dens. Book learning took too long as did the what to bring and how to use them area.

Activities & games,camp area and what to bring, campfire program, They taught us Foil packets for our lunch and while we ate they talked about Dutch Ovens. Desert was Wompums or pole biscuits over coals.


I think this is a wonderful training for first timers. For those of us that have already done several years of pack camping there really wasn't much for us.


We had fun, learned a new recipe or two but we were there for 8 hours. It really was too long. I would like to see two versions of the training. One for first timers and one for those already in the know. How to go about that I'm not sure of, maybe a test out or have CM or Unit Commisioner sign off on it.


Would like these types of training at University as well if it could be shortened.


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