Why is the old Wood Badge Training deemed inadequate?

[jhankins 10]

It all hinges upon the culture of the local council and the perceptions of Wood Badge therein.

 

The follow-up is more important than the course itself, as JMHawkins mentioned. That's why a beading ceremony is an important aspect of the Wood Badge experience. Learning to see the needs of the unit and meeting those to your own satisfaction combined with creating a personal culture of leadership are important steps into how Wood Badge can become effective without overbearing.

 

I cherish the memories, notebooks, stories and insight of anyone willing to impart their knowledge from the "old" Wood Badge. The scoutcraft taught in that setting is still important today, and I wish we can find a way to continue that tradition without losing it completely.

 

What each person will take away from their time at Gilwell varies as much as the people that go. Some learn life lessons that do change their outlook on life. Some have an encounter with themselves and their role in scouting that transforms everything from their home life to work life. Some still realize that it wasn't the material that they already knew that was good for them, it was the people they shared their journey with. This goes for the "old" as much as the "new."

 

The "new" Wood Badge isn't superior to "the old," it's just a different method to get the same result, leadership willing to lead by example and understand that a good leader is a servant first.

 

 

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Hello Crew21,

 

 

It's interesting to read your explanation for how this mythology developed.

 

I'm not especially impressed by the explanation for recruiting those who had already been in WB to take it again. It appears they were viewed as a vulnerable group who could be persuaded to part with their time and money in order to further someone's sales quota.

 

Just as you say, it appears that the previous WB course DID tend to deepen the commitment of people to Scouting. Unfortunately this was used in a rather cynical way to take advantage of that commitment.

 

I wonder how many such people wound up not "working their ticket" in useful ways in order to take this training again when it had limited utility? How great was the net HARM done to Scouting?

 

And now the mythology has taken on a life of its own in a way that demeans those who took the earlier course. Quite an accomplishment.

[Basementdweller 608]

It is simply the new good old boys club displacing the old good old boys club......pretty simple if you ask me.

 

The Jambo requirement is simply a way to force active scouters to do it......of course you could take the course and not bother with the ticket....

[Lisabob 13]

"More recent WB21C students tell themselves they are superior to Pre2000 WB students, since this is what they were told."

 

Maybe that is the attitude in some places? Happily, it isn't one I've run into in the roughly 10 years that I've been involved in my current location. I suspect this is a reflection of local cliques & local attitudes.

 

 

[JMHawkins 15]

Interesting to read Crew21's take. A lot of that I probably could have guessed, it's pretty common in organizations.

 

The Meyers-Briggs/Situational Leadership/Formin'-Stormin'-Norman'/Puddle-I'm-Standing-In stuff are all useful tools and techniques, but I think they are to Organizational Leadership about like IOLS is to doing a summit attempt on Mt. Rainier - strictly Introductory material. You're going to need to learn a whole lot more before you try the Mountain, else you won't get anywhere near the summit and you'll be lucky to come back alive.

 

If I were designing an Organization Leadership course, among my top priorities would be teaching folks how to avoid the sort of well-intentioned but counterproductive metrics-and-mission distortion Crew21 wrote about with WB21C. Somebody has a new initiative, it's a big part of their job so they're enthusiastic about it. The org invested quite a bit in it, so they give the team a lot of leeway and encouragement in pushing it. The team has metrics for success and they want to hit their numbersl. Next thing you know they're leveraging every bit of organizational authority they have to drive people to their baby, regardless of whether its helpful or harmful to the parent org's overall mission. Not a big surprise to me to see it happen in BSA, since I've seen it happen in both larger and smaller organizations.

 

It is a little humorous that it happend with the flagship Leadership Training course. But like the CD said at my IOLS, the kids really laugh when the Scoutmaster can't get the fire started.

 

 

[Crew21_Adv 25]

SP and Fellow Scouters,

 

Greetings again!

 

Yeah.. I guess you can say, my understanding of how Pre2000WB was deemed inadequate is a skewed view. And again, it is an opinion.

 

My information is third hand knowledge; after discussions during WB21C development focus groups, and brought back to council by a few CD attending the WB21C CDC. I've heard that "Recruiting for WB21C" is a topic at CDC, and has a slide about target audiences to recruit from. The second category being Pre2000WBers.

 

Those CDs never say that Pre2000WB is inadequate. I've never heard that. They do say that remaining Pre2000WB still around could stand to be retrained and make the second best target recruiting group. Since if they are Pre2000WB trained and they are still around, they are commited to the program. Pre2000WBers should enjoy the opportunity for upgrade training.

 

In my previous post, I said I attended and staffed Pre2000WB. Then staffed WB21C four times. After three WB21C courses, and prior to my fourth staff experience. I too was invited to attend WB21C as a learner, instead of a staffer. I politely declined. Though I do know of one friend whom eventually put away his Pre2000 beads, and attended again.

 

Then I think the recruiting target audience perpetuates as 3rd hand details to the WB21C staff, and then as a 4th hand concept to the recent WB21C learners. I don't believe it is intended to state Pre2000WB is inadequate for exercising leadership. But the "Recruiting" session discussions which are passed down, lead some staffers/learners to sincerely believe Pre2000 is inadequate.

 

Almost all of us have played the Rumor game in our youth, my Venturers call it the "Cellphone game". Here on Scouter.com forum, we've read about rumors becoming something completely different when talking about unit and district committees. As discussion topics are passed on, the topic seems to change.

 

It is an opinion. I don't believe WB21C is any more superior, but it is more contemporary. I don't see anything that made the older Wood Badge deemed inadequate, from sherminator505's question, "what was it". and also the topic thread, "Why.."

 

I think the real question should be "when was it deemed inadequate", and to myself, that was during the regional CDCs and the "Recruiting" session discussion. Probably from the WB21C staff development and pilot courses a decade ago.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21_Adv

[magic823 10]

As a Pre2000WB and one that is planning on taking 21CWB this fall, I have mixed feelings about it. In one case, its an opportunity to network in my new council (I've been out of Scouting for 20 years and I'm living in a different state now). Its also an opportunity to refresh some knowledge. However, on the the hand if its just Organizational Behavior stuff - I have an MBA and took plenty of graduate level classes in that. I'm sure I could teach it in greater depth than will ever be presented in the course (I probaly should bring my OB textbooks to training). My biggest issue is in having to forgo wearing our beads after the course till we work another ticket. I understand the not being allowed to wear the beads during the course. But afterwards, it doesn't make sense to me. Don't they trust us that we would work another ticket? Aren't we trustworthy?

 

If I was planning this thing I would have an additional item, maybe a special bead or woggle that would be awarded to someone who has done both courses and completed a second ticket. There are enough old-timers that wouldn't mind that and actually might increase course attendance. Reward those that go the extra distance.

[ScoutBox 11]

That's a good point Magic..

Can't see a problem with that one...

[jhankins 10]

Course Director Conferences are filled with staff that haven't even cracked open the 21st century syllabus and full of area and region volunteers who are just talking out the mouth and not with their actions. Not one four beader from the area level would come take 21st century WB, but they'll sure tell us how it's supposed to be done. It's not helpful at all. CDCs are good for networking and sharing how changes to the syllabus affect the program and how better to implement those changes.

 

That being said, on our last course, we had two four beaders volunteer to take off their Pre 1999 beads and join us as participants. One took the approach of being a team player, the other took the approach of knowing how WB works and tried to lead his team from the inside out.

 

Which worked better? The Team player. Did both patrols learn the mechanics of team development by experiencing it? You betcha, but the tea, with the know-it-all 4 beader had a lot more trials to overcome. It was interesting to watch.

 

Both men, by the way, are almost done with their tickets, and are still wearing their learning neckerchief (even to the International Committee's Japan tour happening now).

[SR540Beaver 116]

Actually, you don't have to have WB to be an adult leader at Jambo. In a council where there are plenty of WB trained adults, it is expected. Our council holds 2 WB courses per year. Even if we don't fill a course at 48 participants, let's say we had courses of 36. That is 72 WB trained people per year. 72 x 5 = 360 WB'ers running around the council. Heck, if half of them had left the program, you still have 180. We can easily pick good Jambo leaders from a pool like that. Now, a neighboring smaller council to the south of us has not had a WB course in over 5 years. I don't know that they have a single WB'er in the council. Yet they were camped right next to my Jambo troop this last year. BSA makes allowances for situations like that.

 

One other note. I know a lot of "old WB guys". So far, nothing they have told me about the old course has impressed me. I've heard more bad stories than good. Staff were stoic and closed lip much of the time and acted superior. It wasn't a friendly environment and intended to stress the participants. They weren't told how to do anything and it was their job to figure out what the staff wanted. One fellow WB21C staffer of mine brought his dad's ticket for us to see. It was a typed, single line spaced document in a three ring binder that looked and read like a disertation. He had to submit it numerous times as it would be returned to him to be "fixed" without being told what needed to be fixed. He had to figure it out. Of course, this was also the course that you couldn't register for and take when it was available. You had to be deemed worthy and invited.

 

No thanks!

[acco40 95]

There were a number of positive things I took away from Wood Badge --- probably the most important a deeper sense of commitment to "working my ticket" as a lifelong avocation.

 

WB21C is no different from that respect. Keep in mind, that even WB21C has changed from it's first offering to now. To mimic others, yes, when I took WB21C (first year offered) it was much better than the watered down version they give today!

 

Also, everyone, stop with the "it's required" nonsense. WB21C is not a requirement for anything (except maybe to be on staff, you need to have taken the course).

[Oak Tree 15]

Like Lisabob, I look at some of the attitudes represented here and think "I've never seen that." Certainly I didn't see any student or staff member at my Wood Badge express any opinion like that. Maybe I just don't run in the Good Old Boy circles, but they did ask me to be on staff this year, so it doesn't appear that any such club membership is required.

 

The staffers I saw did a good job teaching the material. Sure, some of it was a repeat of stuff I've had before. But the course was well done, and our patrol had a great time. The networking was excellent (one reason I wouldn't recommend taking Wood Badge out of council).

 

I haven't heard anyone say that the old Wood Badge course was inadequate. I don't think it was. Nor is the new the end-all and be-all of training. It's a training course. I tried to learn what I could, and network where I could. There were one or two students who didn't seem to have the best attitude, but otherwise, people were enthusiastic.

 

It's fun to be around enthusiastic people. Sometimes I feel like this forum doesn't provide that - it's easy for cynicism to creep in - but there are a few who make up for it.

[ScoutBox 11]

@Oak Tree..

 

you hit the nail on the head. I had the same experience as you. I too never saw any of the secret squirrel or attitude that many are talking about here. In fact the Staff dispelled any idea of a secret club ... I know this because I and several others ASKED.. Did have one guy question the value of the course and he was in my Patrol. Also a very smart individual. He too asked about why was this course considered the top of the level in Scout Courses, I think maybe he knew something I didn't. I also was one of those who asked several of the old timer staff people about the changes made. The CD had on display 60 years of WB Course pics books albums projects etc too look at. I felt sorry for the Staff members who had to answer some of these questions from others. They were there to do a job, not the politics of the BSA.. But they put on the best course I could imagine, and supported us all in our education and tickets.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

This thread resembles the Wood Badge course I took.

 

 

No one is going to give you "the" answer.

 

You and your Wood Badge patrol members have to put your heads together and reason out what the correct answers might be.

 

 

The people contributing to this thread have been my "patrol" members, and the bottom line for me is no evidence of anything sinister about Wood Badge ---then or now.

 

Just people trying to do their best to put on a good course and trying to learn from that course.

[Lisabob 13]

Oak Tree says: "It's fun to be around enthusiastic people."

 

This sums up my feeling about being involved as a scouter at any level, and was one of the things I most enjoyed about WB.

 

When cynicism or negativity or smothering overprotection or turf wars or "its different and different = bad!" take over, then I find myself wondering why I'm there. The best scout units I've seen, everybody is having fun and people (youth & adult) are enthusiastic about what they're doing and why they're involved in scouts, at least most of the time.