Resentment about needing to get trained?!

[moosetracker 132]

dewASM - Your IOLS is only offered by the Council and only once a year??.. Most places each district does IOLS and normally twice a year. If you don't like my time table, you look out of district. Our district is long and narrow, so unfortunately I can book somewhat midway, and still the northern & southern people will have to travel an hour or more.. That is the one thing I dislike about my district, most others are smaller and more square.

 

Oak Tree - Your comments helped me.. I am trying to do something more advanced, and quicker for the seasoned Scouters.. I probably wont get the council to vote on it until May though. It was scheduled for a vote in Jan. Council Planning meeting which was called on account of snow, and the March Planning meeting just got changed to a meeting to work on University of scouting stuff for that coming meeting.. (I kind-of figured that would happen, but got confirming email today.)..

 

I agree with you that the IOLS is too fast paced for the totally green.. But don't know how to change that, I don't think many would prefer to go to a two or three weekend long course.. But, it is a waste of time for the expirenced scouter, and best to have them come together do a quick review, and then pool their combined knowledge to teach each other advanced methods and ideas of how to make the teaching of and continual review of scout skills interesting and challenging for their units. And cut the course down to less then a day..

 

From the few who have heard the idea so far, I have got positive feedback.. It is just getting the meeting to discuss and vote on it.. *Sigh*

[dewASM 10]

Yup, once a year by council. Always the first weekend in June.

Leader specific is usually once a year too. And no Roundtable in my district.

 

No NYLT in at least 3 years.

 

So my question is if training is so important that I must be mandated to do it, why is it not important to Council or District? To me it is clearly a very mixed message.

[Oak Tree 15]

moosetracker, what you're doing sounds great. I wish there were more like you. Thanks for your service.

 

I don't really have a good answer for IOLS, other than doing it the way we do it with Scouts. Have each individual person demonstrate that they have the skills. Some of it could be with a computerized test. Some of it would have to be done in person. That assumes that you want to keep IOLS more or less with the same goal.

 

When we were taking the class, though, we were commenting that what we wanted out of the class wasn't really so much "how to do the skills", but rather, "how to teach the skills." I'd like to know what kind of rope troops have on hand. What is the best size for teaching Scouts how to tie knots? What kinds of axes are for sale and are a good size for new Scouts to use? What are some sample menus that new Scouts can use successfully.

[Gunny2862 11]

In my little personal world - where it can on occasion get a little petty - I experience a little push back when someone tells me I "have to" take the mandatory training.

 

On the other hand when I'm given the sales pitch that if I really want to provide the best Scouting experience for my Scouts then I'll make sure to get to the training and ensure I know everything Scouting has to offer them - Hey, I'm running to that. Especially if my predecessor has his "Trained" strip and ensures that even though he's the woodsy guy who know the taxonomia and common names of just about everything that exists in the woods and although I may never learn that stuff, I will learn ways to make Scouting work for the boys I'll be working with. After 20+ years in the Marine Corps I don't have any issues with my ability to endure just about anything in the woods, but even just being around other Scouters I learn new more comfortable more effective ways to do things, and to teach things in more relevant ways to the Scouts. And Training has simply been on some occasions time to do that w/o the boys.

 

In real life I have taken almost everything the OLC and Council offers except for Woodbadge - which is a two part time and cost consideration. I serve on the Council Training Staff as a Trainer, and even so, the "mandatory" nature of the proposal bugs me, and so I try to ensure that we A) cover all the material and b) try to make it as painless as possible.

[desertrat77 1144]

Gunny, thanks for sharing that. I wish more councils utilized your approach.

[ScoutNut 147]

>>"So my question is if training is so important that I must be mandated to do it, why is it not important to Council or District?"

[sherminator505 10]

I think some of the resentment stems from the BSA's decision to separate the leader-specific training from IOLS and creating an additional training weekend for our volunteers. This represents an increased demand not only on the students, but on the trainers as well.

 

I think that Sherm's Correlary fits here. We've all heard that it not a good idea to do something just because "we've always done it that way." Sherm's Correlary states that while that may be so, there just MIGHT have been a reason WHY we've always done it that way. There was a reason why we did Scoutmaster Fundamentals in a single weekend, and I think this thread hits on that reason. We do ask a lot of our volunteers, and at times I wonder if we have passed the point of taking our volunteers for granted in imposing these requirements.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[BadenP 93]

IMO, the main resentment comes from scouters being told a certain training is mandatory or essential in doing your position, and you commit your time and money, then the training turns out to be a complete waste. In my council we have a new SE who is very concerned about the quality and content of all training and he has a mandatory Train the Trainer series of classes that he personally oversees, and instructs some of the sections. If any district or council trainer does not or refuses to attend they are removed from their training positions for two years, no exceptions, needless to say he gets 100% attendance. The result has been a much, much, higher quality of presentations and content and a dramatic increase in attendance from scouters. I wish all SE's took similiar steps in their own councils then this discussion would become moot.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

How can you deliver the promise if you have never been told what it is?

[Beavah 205]

How can you deliver the promise if you have never been told what it is?

 

Pithy, but not necessarily applicable, eh?

 

We have books. They lay out da "promise" pretty well. Don't most scouters know how to read?

 

We have da live community. Yeh come into a troop and yeh do what the kids do. Yeh learn by watching and doing, under the guidance of others.

 

We have da virtual community, where yeh can write and read and discuss and learn all kinds of things about "da promise."

 

The notion that seat-time in one of da scripted live-training sessions is necessary might be a bit much, especially since da quality of these is so spotty.

 

I encourage everybody to take training and learn more. Not just BSA training but ARC and ACA and all da rest. But I'm realistic about it, eh? BSA training is just not very effective and often not a productive use of some folks' time, and resentful folks rarely learn a thing at "mandatory" training.

 

Far better to work with folks and direct 'em toward any resources or programs that will help 'em and that they can buy into as being worth their investment of time and treasure.

 

Beavah

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

"We have books. They lay out da "promise" pretty well. Don't most scouters know how to read?"

 

Yeah, most can read, most can read "Guide to Safe Scouting" and we know THAT book is universally regarded the same way all across the length and breadth of the program

 

We know that all Troops do everything the way they are supposed to, I guess Training is just silly, excuse me

[sherminator505 10]

It is very true that IF every Scouter read the books AND could envision what is laid out in those books AND could implement that vision as the authors intended, then training would be unnecessary. Unfortunately that is a very, very big IF! The reality is that people need to be trained to reinforce what is in those books and to help them see the vision that is being set before them.

 

That said, I have serious concerns about the current BSA training program. I am not at all convinced that compartmentalizing the training into an ever-increasing number of modules is the best way to deliver training to volunteers who have to balance Scouting with work and family commitments. It seems that they've come up with a lot of bright ideas, but they haven't really considered the ramifications of implementing them. Thus the discussion we're having here.

 

It is on this point that Kudu and I tend to diverge. I don't believe that National has truly embraced management theory as Kudu suggests, because if it had the BSA would not look like the dysfunctional organization at the National level that it does.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[BadenP 93]

Sorry OGE

 

The G2SS is NOT, NOT "regarded the same universally throughout the breadth of the scouting program." As well as the fact the G2SS only refers to the safety aspects and not the quality of the scouting programs being delivered nationally.

 

The problem is NOT the reading of BSA publications but the interpretation of what is contained in them. The other training problem,IMO, is the number of online programs that has replaced the basic trainings and caused even further misinterpretation and even less retention of the material. It is not as much that scouters can not read, but rather the unclear, obtuse, and poorly written material presented in these publications.

 

As far as live training is concerned most of the presenters are not adequately trained not only in the topics but how to present the material in an interesting and inclusive manner instead of just standing there and reading verbatim from a script. Then you wonder why scouters feel resentful? In my own council we have dealt with and corrected these problems as EVERY council in the BSA should do. So OGE you can get off your high horse now.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Come to think of it, to take the Bar exam one must be able to read, so why do we need Law Schools? Should not those who wish to be a Lawyer merely read the books and then pass the test?

[BadenP 93]

OGE

 

Bang! you shot yourself in the foot once again. Abraham Lincoln never went to law school but read the right books and passed the bar exam only to become an accomplished attorney and then president. Any other pearls of OGE wisdom you would care to drop, lol.