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A few words -


1) Being and Eagle Scout has nothing to do with if you will learn anything at Wood Badge or not. As I mentioned above I was in a patrols with almost all Eagles and everyone of us felts as though when the course was completed it that it was well worth the cost and effort.



2) "To learn read, to know write, to master teach." This was printed on the paper danglely thing on my tea bag the other morning. I believe that Wood Badge helps us to be better teachers. In Wood Badge I got to read and write and through that I learn how to be a better teacher among other things.


Unfortunately most people miss the point that Scoutmaster is formed from the word schoolmaster and is intended to mean teacher of Scouts.


3) "Status symbols (beads, woggels, tartan), a WB values not these things (cheap yoda ripoff quote)....for more than what they are versus what they represent. " I could not agree more. If someone came in my house and stole my WB regalia, my Eagle medal and my OA sash I would be no less than I am today. I would just have less stuff to put on for different occasions.


There are days where I think all Scouters should only wear the minimum uniform. Shirt with CSP, numbers, flag... No knots and no beads. Then I remember that were are role models for the Scouts. That we want them to be proud of their accomplishments and so we should show them we are proud of ours.(This message has been edited by asm 411)

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My thoughts of scouting begin and end with the boys. I went to Wood Badge to help me be a better leader. I made sure that my ticket items would be of benefit to my son and his pack. Whether they know it or not, my boys have benefitted from me attending Wood Badge.

Our boys have too many distractions. We are the path layers. Wood Badge reinforces ideals that should not be lost.

Wood Badge reminds me that I am not alone in my commitment to scouting.

We are a memory from the moment we start our existence. I want my boys to remember me with fondness.

Im sorry for sounding like the simple man that I am.

I want my son to be a better man than me.


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I have a very good friend whose brother has absolutely no interest in attending Wood Badge (he's 50 something). Why should he go?! Afterall, he's an Eagle Scout. End of conversation.


Well, let me clarify. I have never taken a "bad attitude" into training with me. I have, however, developed a disdain for courses after they ended and it was clear I had wasted my time. I got nothing from Scoutmaster Fundamentals or Trainers Development Course that I didn't already know. The sharing with other Scout leaders would have been helpful if I hadn't already been getting that in spades from Scoutmaster cracker barrels and the like.


I don't care about the cost, I can afford it -- what I can't afford is wasting nights and weekends going over something I've gone over (heck, taught!) many times before. It has nothing to do with whether I'm an Eagle Scout or not, it has to do with the fact I have limited time available and 30 years of Scouting behind me. I knew people learn better by doing than by getting preached to 30 years ago, why did I have to spend 6 hours in a classroom regurgitating it?


If you want former Scouts who remember Patrol method, Scout skills, etc. to go to WB, you need to show why it's value-added. I have seen plenty of reason for new Scouters to take SM-specific training and WB -- but I have yet in all these discussions seen anything in the WB syllabus or program that amplifies Scout (or SM) skills for the former Scout or long-time Scouter. What exactly is the student supposed to get out of the time invested? I'll sign up for it in a flash when I see that it really IS going to make me a better Scouter.

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I agree with HICO Eagle.


And based on the discussion thus far, I stand by my original position: WB is a club. Good comes from WB, yes. But when club members declare superior dedication and wisdom, well.....


Wondering aloud...if councils put a fraction of the effort into basic scout leader training that they put into WB, we'd really have something....(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

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"if councils put a fraction of the effort into basic scout leader training that they put into WB, we'd really have something...."


Well now that, I can agree with. One thing WB taught me was that we really do have a group of excellent trainers in our council. Sadly, these are not the people who typically deliver most of our basic scout leader trainings.



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Wondering aloud...if councils put a fraction of the effort into basic scout leader training that they put into WB, we'd really have something....


Our Council holds several Cub/Scout training opportunities during the year and hold Outdoor Skills/BALOO 2x every year.


WB is every 2 years, 1 course (6 days).


AFAIK council puts little effort into WB, other than advertisement. The staff pays their own camping/food, the staff QM get donations for food/program, the participants pay for camping/food/program....


In our council (and probably the same elsewhere) it's the volunteers that run ALL the training from Cub to Scout fundamental training to the Merit Badge Trail Drives, Outdoor Skills/BALOO anyway. That mix of volunteers includes WB'ers, Eagle Scouts, CM, SM, and more than a large dose of Spouses.


The only thing I ever see from council that DE staff is a push for "challenge camp" or some other program aimed at creating a program for kids that aren't Scouts who never show up at any Scout meetings.



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First time I've ever used that word!


I have an Auntie Sumtie.

A really nice little Lady. She never married and has spent most of her days in rural county Meath in Ireland.

One year, many years back the church organized a pilgrimage to Lourdes, France.

This trip was the only time she ever left Ireland.

I don't know when she went? But I'm guessing it was over 40 years ago.

She has always been a faithful and practicing Roman Catholic. She has always attended Mass at least twice a week, still to this day never eats meat on a Friday and supports her local church in many different ways, helping with the cleaning and the flowers.

She loves to talk about her week in Lourdes.

Her eyes light up and she smiles when she talks about it.

For her Lourdes and Our Lady of Lourdes has a special meaning.

I don't know if she is in any way a better Catholic for going? I do think her trip made her happy and in some way reinforced her faith.

Her going sparked my interest so when I was in France on a vacation I thought that I'd visit.

I wasn't that impressed ! Everything seemed so very commercial to me. I know that my visit did little to help my faith.

For some people spending a week totally submerged in Scouts is going to reinforce their faith and maybe some skills in Scouts and Scouting. For some a week away from the norm will be the high point of their Scouting career.

For others, it will be like my visit to Lourdes, just a nice thing to do.

I don't know how many people have taken WB?

I sure that while many of the things that people will say about their time at the course will seem the same. A lot will have their own special memories.

As for the WB Regalia?

Sumtie came back from Lourdes with a case full of holy pictures, statues and holy Lourdes water, which she placed on her little home alter.

I bought a book about the history of Lourdes. Which is someplace. - I just don't know where?

The "Whup" Or big "Whup" factor is how each of us sees what is special and important to each of us.

I'd never knock what maybe I don't understand.


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Fellow Scouters,





In my opinion. An adult Scouter who is an Eagle is even more of a reason to attend Wood Badge.


Regarding just a few of HICO's comments. I would agree to some issues. On few rare occasions a Scouter may personally develop all the skills that are taught in NLE, Scoutmaster Specifics, and Wood Badge (or Cub Scout, Varsity, and Venturing equivalents). But I seriously doubt a Scouter can develop these skills within the average tenure of their Scouting son. Possibly by the time a Scouters grandson is entering the program, they could personally develop a life time of lessons which Wood Badge skills can deliver in six days.


The BSA "training continuum" goal is that leaders attend Wood Badge for the 21st Century within two years of becoming a leader. I would expect an adult leader to develop the similar skills may take the full tenure of a Scouting son. (Let's say, a family with one son, age 6 thru 18, maybe 12 years of Scouting.) Wood Badge assembles some very valuable lessons, and wraps them into a six day curriculum.


I would expect any normal person could develop all these similar skills (taught in Wood Badge). (IMHO) These similar skills can be learned at their work (team work) seminars and sensing session, in college group project graded work, youth sports coaches seminars, and community and church based family programs. But (IMHO) I would think these (SM Specifics and Wood Badge) skills, separately, would be learned over a lifetime. At least longer than 12 years. Maybe by the time a Scouting parent or leader returns to Scouting as a grandparent, possibly they could have experienced everything Wood Badge has to offer.


So, I frequently see many Cub Scouters that can lead Dens and apply Den Leader in a Box. I run across many Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmaster that are experienced campers and are business leaders, which run a fairly good program. But their troop's program could be better if they attended Wood Badge. For these fellow Scout leaders; over time have they learned similar skills to Wood Badge? probably so. Are they applying all the skills they could learn in Wood Badge? Definitely not. Many times, I've met successful men and women that are Scouters, but their Scouting adult leadership and mentoring could be improved. Attending Wood Badge would encourage them to apply those skills; skills they already have and whatever new skills they just might learn.


Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv


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I am not a WB. I made Vigil back in a time & place where there was great distrust (& dislike) between the two camps (WB & OA) in my council. Some of my lifelong friends have done WB and loved it, and I know it is a great program, but I feel my time is currently more important with the troop then on myself. I made Chief Petty Officer at sea during wartime, I have learned a lot about leadership in the US Navy. I have been in Scouts for 39 years (joined Cub Scouts at age 7) and believe I know alot (not all) about scouting, so I do not see a reason to WB. Unfortunately I am currently in a District where the "WB club" believes that if you are not WB then you are either not a leader or not willing to volunteer for the boys. I know I will never fit in locally above the Troop level, luckly I can continue to help the Boys in my Troop the best I can. It is sad fact that some in WB ( at least locally) believe if you are not WB, then you must not know what you are doing.


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Cliques are not uncommon. Peopel are inclined to trust those "like them" and that they already know. But excluding a Scouter simply because he is different is contrary to what is taught in the current (third version) of Wood Badge. There are many paths to wisdom, and Scouting is supposed to value diversity.


Frankly, given the need for more -- always more -- competent help I have seen in five Councils, I suspect there is a slot at District or Council level that you may fill if you elect to do so, WB or no. Some training special may be prerequisite for some jobs, like Commissioner's training for Unit Commissioner jobs. Have you asked at your Service Center about help needed? Are you willing to comute to Ohio?

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Been reading this awhile and guess I have to include my $0.02:


To quote National: "Incorporating leadership concepts that are used in corporate America, the course teaches participants the basics of listening, communicating, valuing people, team development, situational leadership, problem solving, and managing conflict. Once the skill is learned, each member is given the opportunity to use the skill as a member of a successful working team. At the conclusion of the course, each participant develops a set of personal goals related to his or her Scouting role. Working toward these goals allows each participant to practice and demonstrate new skills. "


Whereas WB used to be the "Pinnacle of Scouter training".


Used to be that you would see a Scouter with WB beads and know that that person knew quite a lot about the program they WB'ed in. Now-adays, a brand new Tiger Den-Leader with less than one year can earn WB beads and still not know what the cubs need for advancement.


So what is the new "Pinnacle"? What training is there for the Scouter to teach the outdoor skills that s/he can teach to his Pack/Troop? How can s/he teach that Scouting is a game that teaches in the outdoors when s/he may not know them? WB used to be about the program. Now it is about the management.


How is WB different from a Covey (sp?) course in management? What does Covey know of tracking, pioneering, Day Camp, Camporees, Webelorees, Tote-n-Chip, or any other thing the boys like doing?


I also regret that I did not go through the old WB course, although I would have to have gone through the Cub Scouter Course then. The new one is NOT worthless but is not a Scouting specific training either.


Agin, just my $0.02. I would like some of the Outing put back in Scouting.






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I think the new pinnacle for outdoor skills is the new Philmont Leadership Challenge (PLC), which Scouting magazine did an article on.




Problem is in order to play, you must A) gone through or staffed WB21C or B) Gone through WB AND staffed NYLT.


According to the article there is NO classroom stuff as everythgin is outdoors.


A close second may be POWDERHORN. I don't know.


Me personally I am not eligible, nor could afford PLC, so i guess I'll have to try my hand at Powderhorn.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

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I can tell you from personal experience that Powderhorn was a great time and it got me to try things I would never had done or even tried on my own. The instructors were well trained and EXPERIENCED outdoor types, unlike many of the other BSA trainings I have undergone. I recommend every scout leader from Cubs to Venturing take the course for some unforgetable experiences and extremely useful information in high adventure activities that are applicable to any outdoor program.

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