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Wood Badge beads for NYLT staff

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Hello my Scouting friends,


It has been some time since Ive posted any comments. The discussion of Wood Badge beads now being available for National Youth Leadership Training (NYLT) is interesting.


Having served on staff for both Wood Badge for the 21st. Century and having served as Course Director/Scoutmaster for NYLT, (The new syllabus eliminates the term course director and only offers the title of Scoutmaster.) I would like to share some information about the two courses. Both courses teach basically the same toolbox of leadership skills Vision, SMART Goals, Planning, etc. A few sessions are intentionally modified: WB has the game Win All You Can and NYLT has the game Getting to Know Me; WB has a presentation on Managing Change and NYLT has a presentation on Managing Yourself. These are appropriate changes to fit the age of participants.


I see the big difference between Wood Badge and NYLT as not really the course material, but rather the staffs experience. Wood Badge staffs are almost always seasoned trainers with much experience training leaders in Scouting. The NYLT youth staff members are Scouts age 14 and up. Few youth staff members would be called seasoned trainers. The youth staff of NYLT must learn basically the same leadership skills as the Wood Badge staff need to learn. However the youth staff of an NYLT course also needs to learn the training skills necessary to effectively present these leadership skills. Developing the training skills of youth staff members can often be a significant challenge for all involved in the NYLT staff.


Because of these differences in staff's experience levels, I believe the skills, hard work and leadership required by an NYLT Scoutmaster to complete a successful NYLT course are no less than those needed by a Wood Badge course director to do the same in a Wood Badge course. Therefore I see it as appropriate for both course leaders to be recognized with the appropriate awarding of beads.


The Scouting program is strengthened when both adult leaders and youth leaders are given the opportunity to learn effective leadership skills in Wood Badge and NYLT. It is also my position that every Scout deserves to be trained as a leader!


Yours Truly in Scouting,

Rick Pushies


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"Should a girl be able to earn Eagle Scout by participating in the Venturing program?"


Sorry, but this has nothing to do with the topic we are discussion.


Girls can't earn Eagle Scout. Only boys. So its a moot point.


Girls in Venturing can earn all the Venturing awards, including Venturing Silver, the highest. If they join a Sea Scout Ship, they can earn all the Sea Scout awards, including Quartermaster, the highest. Earning both awards takes more work then earning Eagle. Eagle was designed for ages 11-13, while the Venturing/Sea Scout awards are designed for an older age.


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I think it was supposed to be a rhetorical question, and in that sense it is applicable. This discussion is about rewarding Wood Badge staff and course director beads for something other than being Wood Badge course director or staff.(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

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As rpushies stated, the courses are now simular. Having been ins Scouting off and on since '79 as an adult, I looked forward to WB. After having attended the course, I feel more like quiting Scouting than I ever did.


I thought, as BP once told, that WB was training for the adult to learn what the boy needed (ie SCOUTCRAFT). It was closer to a "Covey" management course.


We had one person in group, very nice person, with less than 0ne year as a Tiger Den Leader. He can now earn his beads and be a WB experienced "pro" before he has two years in. He still does NOT completely understand the Cub Program (much less the BOY Scout program) but will wear the beads.


You, ask if adding more courses to the WB beads degrades it? Not to National. They want more bead holders regardless of thier knowlege/esperience level. Will other adults look up to WB beads again? Doubtfull when some of them know more than the "beaded one".


emb021 says that "Eagle was designed for ages 11-13". I would be hard pressed to name an 11 year old Eagle. But I guess the new rules might make it possible. Would make the old Eagles proud of the work they did for thiers. Guess that should shame the boys that are near 18 and still finishing thier Eagles eh?


I will "earn" my beads, but I doub t I will ever wear them as there was NO Scoutcraft taught, the participants left without ever filling out a duty roster and have no idea why they are important. the only thing campwise that was used was cooking for self and staff (only meals that were on time) and we used the same cook most times due to no roster.


Just appears to me that National is trying to take the "Outing" out of Scouting again. I say again in reference to the 70's "Inner City handbook" that was such a hit.



WB Owl Patrol.

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"emb021 says that "Eagle was designed for ages 11-13". I would be hard pressed to name an 11 year old Eagle. But I guess the new rules might make it possible. Would make the old Eagles proud of the work they did for thiers." Guess that should shame the boys that are near 18 and still finishing thier Eagles eh?


National has stated in print that the boy scout advancement program was designed for the 11-13 age boy in mind, in terms of ability/skill set. It has nothing to do with an 'rules' of when you earn it. Which is funny when you consider the many people who seemed to want to hold back boys from getting Eagle until they are in high school. Whereas, the Venturing & Sea Scout advancement programs were designed for the high school aged.


"Guess that should shame the boys that are near 18 and still finishing thier Eagles eh?"


To a degree, yes. Why did it take them 7 years to earn Eagle (if they started out at 11). If they started much later, that would be one thing.


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I am going to have to disagree with you on Eagle to a degree. The new requirements may be designed for an11-13 year old, But for us older Eagles the requirements were definitely NOT.


As for why some Scouts get Eagle late, even with the new requirements,there are a variety of reasons. I've seen some scouts who are involved in school extracurriculars, and do their best to continue Scouting. I've seen scouts who had to support themselves and help their families out financially. Heck I know of one eagle who actually had to fight his parents to remain in Scouting and get his Eagle.



Now grant you I have not seen this policy that you mention in writing, But I do remember when I was in PDL-1 in 1998 and they brought out the "new" Venturing program what was to be starting in August. When the comment was made by the then director of venturing that the Silver Award was going to supplant the Eagle who had 20+ brand new DEs say "H3!! NO it aint supplanting Eagle."


I would have hoped that national would have gotten the message then.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

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I agree that the lack of Scouting knowledge in some WB21 participants can be frustrating. This situation can sure make a team storm. Imagine a missionary arriving in country one day attending a committee member-based training that same day, then the next day attending Wood Badge in a uniform borrowed from a Scoutmaster. Then imagine that the missionary did not know anything about the Scouting program and the uniform had numerous knots (including Scoutmaster Key and Silver Beaver). While this situation caused some frustration, it also enabled conversations about diversity and assumptions.


On day four, Troop Guides are supposed to show a model campsite. This campsite should model the duty roster; three bucket cleanup; fire rings, clearing, and tent location; an axe yard, etc. Even if the model campsite lacked many of these elements, someone in the patrol should have had Scouting experience and should have share this information with the rest of the patrol.


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So you are saying that the "students" should tell the intructors what is wrong and teach the "students" Wood Badge Scoutcraft? That, of course, assumes the "student" knows what the WB curriculum has to offer before taking the course. Curious. Maybe BSA could think of a course for that??? Maybe call it "Wood Badge" as BP once did for Scoutcraft as he assumed they were leaders but could use help on Scoutcraft?


Just my $0.02


Rick(This message has been edited by ghermanno)

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"I am going to have to disagree with you on Eagle to a degree. The new requirements may be designed for an11-13 year old, But for us older Eagles the requirements were definitely NOT.


"Now grant you I have not seen this policy that you mention in writing"


Its not policy, and not me you're disagreeing with, but National.


During the 1970s, the BSA's own booklet on Cornerstone Training clearly states that the entire Boy Scout Advancement program was written for the 11-13 year old boy in terms of ability.


Whether this is true of the advancement requirements of earlier decades I won't debate.


The advancement programs of the older boy/youth programs (old Explorer Scout, later Explorer, Exploring, and now Venturing) were always targetted at an older audience.


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Wood Badge patrols self-assess their performance each morning at breakfast. If the patrol members have an issue with the lack of duty rotation, then this would be a good time to discuss the issues and for someone in the patrol to mention duty rosters.


If duty rosters were not discussed, this does not mean that the staff members are not aware of them and do not use them in their own units. The course does not teach everything a patrol should know. Part of team development is leveraging the diversity of its members. For example, cooking is not taught be the patrols someone manage to eat.


As was pointed out, WB21 is not a Scoutcraft course, it is a leadership course.


Stepping out on a limb here: One does not need to go to Wood Badge to learn about duty rosters, that should be learned at the Boy Scout Leader "Basic" level. (using the word basic as in fast start, basic, supplimental, and advanced levels and not at the name of the course).


Side note: I have been involved with CSTWB, BSWB, and WB21.

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From the beginning, Wood Badge has been a leadership course and not a skills course. You can read about it here.




If you'll notice, elements from BP's original course still exist in the WB21C course of being organized by patrols and rotating POR's on a daily basis.


I'm not sure how you could have gone to Wood Badge and NOT known what it was to consist of since most councils and courses have websites explaining the course and even the registration forms have a blurb explaining it. No one should ever walk into Wood Badge with the misconception that it is a Boy Scouts skill training course. No one is supposed to take Wood Badge without the prerequisite training for their position in Scouting. If they are an SM or ASM, then they would have needed to have the SM specific training and the Introduction to Outdoor Leaders Skills courses before attending WB. IOLS teaches all the skills from Tenderfoot thru 1st Class.


Wood Badge has ALWAYS been a leadership course.

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  • 1 month later...

This is just another example of the task force's misunderstanding of the culture and values of the Boy Scouts.


Rewarding someone for doing the job is not fixing the problem. Yes, it is an incentive to get people to take on the responsibilities. However, this does not reward someone for performance, it only rewards a person for being willing to be a body for the job. This is a misunderstanding of the values of the the BSA's youth training. The person that takes the job for the beads is not the type of scouter the BSA is looking for. We want the person that takes the job to serve and whose mission is to improve the leadership skills of the youth leaders. Bottom line, your youth will follow in the direction of the course director. And, we are rewarding adults for taking the job, not for their performance, or their commitment to the values of servant leadership.


Instead, the task force should have found a way to reward those scoutmasters and council's that produce talented scouts. Come up with an evaluation system for council NYLT courses and reward the course director for good feedback. Help troops make NYLT a continued training. For example, most of the council's New Jersey have great NYLT courses. The BSA should go down there and figure out why their training courses are working and other council's courses aren't. The problem is that the Boy Scouts is run by those that have the money and not necessarily by those that have the education or background to support their fullish ideas. I know we have some smart people in the BSA, I know we have some (MBA's, lawyers, Doctors, professors and successful business people.) Find these people and recruit them to help the organization grow. And, by the way, it should be the guys down in the trenches that are screaming when things like this happen!!!



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One more comment to make, The real problem is that volunteers and youth are not seen as assets for the organization's leadership. Talent is ignored in many cases and, because of that, the prof. have to spend countless hours on recruitment of those that are not even worth recruiting. Training and Development of both youth and adult should be integrated into the strategic strategy on a national, regional,council and district level. Training, development and succession planning of volunteers by adult and youth should play a key role in the strategy development. People from those areas should be on the strategy team for the entire organization.

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  • 7 months later...

OK, so here we are a year later. Has anyone done this yet? I'm looking for suggestions regarding how to do it. We have a few adults who are close, and we're trying to figure out the best way to present the beads (Who is the audience? When and where?).

It doesn't seem that there's a specific sequence to the requirements. Some need to attend EDGE. Two need to attend the CD conference. One will be a TG at the next WB. Any thoughts on that as well?

Thanks, BDPT00



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