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Lisabob

what training did this person take?

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OK tell me what you think about this one. The troop is trying to update our adult leader training records which are far from complete. We've decided that the easiest way to do it is just to ask people what trainings they've done and to the extent that they remember, when they did them. One fellow said he "thinks" he did WB but it was over 20 years ago and he isn't sure; it might've been something more like the predecessor to OLS/SM training instead (he knows he spent at least a weekend camping). Whatever he took, it was in a council across country, that no longer exists (mergers). So we aren't likely going to get a record of it easily and I also don't want to embarrass this guy.

 

I don't know a lot about the contents of the "old" WB course? Those of you w/ more info than I have, do you think it would even be possible to confuse the previous WB with the older version of SM/OLS training?

 

Lisa'bob

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Tough question. Back in the mid 70's we had something called Corner Stone which was a form of Scoutmaster training. It consisted of nine moduals and took 4 or 5 weekends to complete. At the end I had a stack of trained cards that would have choked a horse! We got a card for each area Knots, Fires, Woodtools, First Aid etc.

I can't see how it could be confused with WB though. If this person doesn't remember what he used to be, I used to be a BEAR myself, then I really doubt he took WB of anykind.

LongHaul

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LongHaul, that's interesting. At various times we've had discussions among volunteers around here about the best way of teaching scout skills to adults. (yes I know, OLS, but I mean in somewhat more depth than a single weekend can provide) Lots of people have proposed something that sounds kind of like this old "cornerstone" that you described. But enough cards to choke a horse? I guess the downside is, how many people would actually do it all in this day and age?

 

Personally I had the same thought about this specific case - that if he can't remember his patrol then it probably wasn't WB.

 

Lisa'bob

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I would submit to you that it does not matter what was taken 20 years ago. The powers that be have decreed that only the trainings you have taken or been recertified in in the last two years are any use. That is here I imagine that most councils have similar rules even if they are not rigorusly enforced.

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Recertify EVERYTHING every 2 years? So what you are saying is that EVERY OTHER year all scouters have to retake - New Leader Essentials, Position Specific, BALOO, Webelos Outdoor, SM Outdoor, Wood Badge, Okpik, Powder Horn, Climb on Safely, Lifeguard, Merit Badge Counselor training, etc, etc?

 

Not here thank goodness! We only do YPT & Safety Afloat/Safe Swim. Both of which can be retaken online. It is hard enough to get people to take training once, much less to repeat it every other year. Sorry, but that rule is just plain silly!

 

 

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I still have all my Girl Scout training information from nearly 40 years ago. Have all my Cub training. I guess I just keep that type of stuff.

If it has been over 20 years since this person has taken any training I would be wanting them to take it again. I personally think that courses like BLT, BALOO, OLS should have to be renewed atlease every 10 years. Unless the person helps with the training program by teaching. I know SMs that took their training 20+ years ago and have never taken another training, except for YPT. I love training and like taking them over. I have learned something new from every training I have retaken. Because you have a different mix of people.

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If he only did one weekend of camping, he did not do Wood Badge (plus, if he did WB, were are his beads?).

 

He did whatever was the Basic Leader Training for Boy Scouts was at the time, and if he hasn't taken the current stuff, he should re-take it.

 

Uh, the comment about 'recertify' is about the CERTIFICATION type training. Training like New Leader Essentials, Position Specific, BALOO, Webelos Outdoor, SM Outdoor, Wood Badge, Okpik, Powder Horn is NOT certification training. Those are one time training, BUT if they go thru major chances and its been awhile since you took them, go thru them again.

 

Certification training that you should retake are:

* Youth protection training (can be done on-line)

* Safe Swim Defence (do on-line)

* Safely Afloat (do on-line)

* Climb On Safely

* Trek Safely

etc

 

These can be done on-line or a couple of hours live. Won't kill you to take them again. CPR is 4 hours and you have to do it every year for Red Cross.

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Well, that would certainly make more sense.

 

However, the discussion was about training that was either Wood Badge or SM basic training. Scottteng said that in his council it would not matter which one it was, because the training would only count if taken within 2 years time.

 

Neither Wood Badge or SM Basic are certification type courses.

 

 

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Sounds like what I had in 1978. One could do either the "Scout Leader Development Course" or both "Cornerstone" and "Outdoor Experience" to fulfill the training requirement for the Scouter's Training Award.

 

I did the SLDC. We were Troop 99. It consisted of several classroom type sessions (troop meetings) and then a weekend camping experience. Troop meetings were spent learning assorted things like how to run meetings, planning, rules & regs, etc. We were divided into patrols (had a couple patrol meetings in addition to the course sessions), had patrol flags/yells, and functioned like a troop. During the outdoor weekend there were stations set up for learning various outdoor skills, patrol cooking, etc.

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QUOTE BY LISABOB: "One fellow said he "thinks" he did WB but it was over 20 years ago and he isn't sure..."

 

I doubt it would be WB. Anyone who has taken Woodbadge would remember it.

 

 

 

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"However, the discussion was about training that was either Wood Badge or SM basic training. Scottteng said that in his council it would not matter which one it was, because the training would only count if taken within 2 years time. "

 

I think he mispoke. Only the certification courses need to be re-taken every 2 years or so. You can't 'retake' WB every 2 years, and its a bit overkill to expect people to retake SMF, et al.

 

 

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If the guy cant remember what he took 20 years ago then his memory of what he learned has been lost as well. It is time to update. By the way, 20 years ago was 1986. Cornerstone had long been gone by that time. He took Scout Leader Training which had an overnighter. The old WB course had three weekends. He should have some kind of evidence. WB records are also preserved by the merging councils. Records are generally not summarily or ceremonially burned. FB

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FB and others, thanks for the input. I was inclined to believe as well that the person in question most likely had NOT taken WB if he couldn't remember. However...he "thinks" he has, despite having no records, no clear memory of content, and no beads that he can remember. And he said it was at least 20 yrs ago, might've been more like 30. So he asked me, well, if it wasn't WB, what did I think it might have been? Yes I could ask him to track down training records to prove it. But I'm really trying to tread lightly here. There are few women in the troop - those who are tend to be not terribly assertive (not my style, fortunately or otherwise) - and there is an "old guard" that one needs to work with. Most of this old guard took training a long time ago and some are resistent to "refreshing" their knowledge. I'm in the minority in terms of viewpoint, gender, and longevity here. At the moment my goal is to help the membership person collect reasonably accurate adult training records (our current ones are almost non-existent) so that we can identify training needs for the upcoming year. This particular fellow is a good enough guy with his heart in the right place. I don't want to alienate him by simply telling him he didn't take WB - though again, I'm pretty sure that's the case.

 

So thanks to everyone for input into what he actually might've taken, that could've somewhat, sorta-kinda, resembled WB. From the sound of it, he probably took the old Scout Leader Development Course, or Cornerstone and Outdoor Essentials. I'll suggest those to him and see if they ring a bell.

 

Lisa'bob

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Lisabob,

 

I realize that you are trying not to tread on the tender ego of the male beast. No doubt such a good hearted warrior would fall hard from such a violent blow but if he hasn't taken WB, then he should. It was fun even in the olden days before fire was invented in the 1980's. I may just do it again so that I will not be such a relic.

 

I may still have what it takes to work my ticket. OFB

 

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