Fuzzy Bear 12 Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I obtained my beads in 1982 but arrogance was not part of the program as I remember it. I will always honor the friendships that it brought to me and the quality of training that remains solidly practical. I have long since recovered from working with several at the Council level that knew how to run everything. These individuals were highly knowledgeable about all there was to know about Scouting and any other issue and worked closely with each to make it all happen, so I am satisfied that they are still doing wonders without me. I have come to appreciate that the least job in Scouting is a great deal of fun and training is useful there as well. FB Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie Den Leader 10 Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 QUOTE: "Newbie, go now and recruit a buddy to go the following year. The crux of the original post was about arrogance. Tell the Scoutmaster never to mistake arrogance for enthusiasm. Newbie, go to Wood Badge and prove to your friend that at least one person who took the training isn't arrogant. To bad eveybody on this forum didn't live near to each other. It would be one vote for arrogance and many votes against." ux2bnowl, The Cubmaster and myself will be taking WB course together within the next year. I'm not in a position to tell this Scoutmaster that he is wrong. He has 7+ years experience as an adult leader and I only have one year. I listen to him because he's fine gentlemen with lots of Scout spirit and well respected in our district. He actively volunteers and supports district events. The best I can do is listen to his view and also hear others that give a favorable view about WB. Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 I failed to mention that when I took WB, I was the Cub Committee Chair of our Pack. Our Cubmaster was on the staff of my WB course. His enthusiasm was contagious. Along with myself, 3 other leaders in our Pack attended that WB course. That made 20 ticket items that benefited our Pack and gave us 5 WB trained leaders. The next year, we had 2 or 3 others go. Evidently, we started a tradition in the Pack that carries on even after we all crossed to Boy Scouts. For the course I am staffing this fall, there are 2 leaders from my old Pack attending. Cubbers need WB! Link to post Share on other sites
oldsm 10 Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Not sure about the elitism part, but I've had a couple of WBers counsel me NOT to go to WB. The reason? "It's just a rehash of the same stuff you've gotten in all the corporate leadership training seminars you've been to. Save your $200." Not sure if this was the "old" or the "new" course. But the comments and $$$ and time out of a busy schedule (1.6 jobs, scouts local and district, and family) make me wonder why I should. If BSA thinks that WB is so vitally important, why not make it free of charge? Link to post Share on other sites
emb021 16 Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 "Not sure about the elitism part" the charges of elitism grew out of aspects of the old WB that have gone away concerning stuff like who gets to be on staff, who get to even attend, etc etc. "but I've had a couple of WBers counsel me NOT to go to WB. The reason? "It's just a rehash of the same stuff you've gotten in all the corporate leadership training seminars you've been to. Save your $200." " Uh huh. Well, maybe someone should tell your company you can save them sending you to $2000 corporate leadership training seminars by sending you to $200 WB. While the leadership skills covered in WB is the same leadership skills covered in such courses, its ALSO delivered in a program aimed at scout leaders, with a lot of scouting specific stuff. And its a great way to met and get to know a lot of fellow scout leaders. "Not sure if this was the "old" or the "new" course. But the comments and $$$ and time out of a busy schedule (1.6 jobs, scouts local and district, and family) make me wonder why I should. If BSA thinks that WB is so vitally important, why not make it free of charge? " Uh, and who will pay the cost of food, supplies, etc, from the course??? There is no free ride in the BSA. Even if you attend events like Jamboree, etc as a staff member you pay your way. If money is a problem, see if your council has a WB scholarship. Link to post Share on other sites
BrentAllen 10 Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 A couple of reasons why the course isn't free: 1. The course uses a couple of scenes from at least 2 movies, for which I believe the BSA has to pay a license or user fee. The course also draws on some of the leading management counselors (Covey, for example), and I'm pretty sure the BSA has to pay to use their material. Plus there are materials (notebooks, neckerchiefs, other supplies) needed to run the course. 2. IMHO, each participant needs to have an equity buy-in. The staff puts in an insane amount of time to run a course. If the attendees doesn't invest anything other than time, there will be some who just walk away half way through, wasting the staff's time, and taking the spot from someone who would have completed the full program. Also, there is a sense of value if a fee is charged. I used to organize marksmanship clinics with the US Army Marksmanship Unit - some of the best shooters in the country. If the course was free, we would get 2 dozen attendees. If we charged $50, we would get 100. Same course, same instructors, same everything - most of us believe there ain't no free lunch, and figure if it doesn't cost anything, you won't get much for the time spent. Link to post Share on other sites
Beavah 205 Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Uh, and who will pay the cost of food, supplies, etc, from the course??? I dunno. How about all da FOS dollars that are ostensibly collected for that purpose? You know, providing trainin' and enhancing the kids' scoutin' experience and all that? Providin' trainin' and program is after all why FOS dollars are collected, right? But BrentAllen has a good point. I agree with him that there needs to be some financial commitment in order to build a mental/emotional commitment. Link to post Share on other sites
SueM 10 Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 "but I've had a couple of WBers counsel me NOT to go to WB. The reason? "It's just a rehash of the same stuff you've gotten in all the corporate leadership training seminars you've been to. Save your $200." " Well yes, it's typical Corporate stuff, but it is specifically geared to the Scouting program. I'm sure any of us who have gone through the course heard this from more than one person there..but I also heard "Even though I've done all this before, I still came away with something new." Remember..you only get as much out of something as you really WANT to!! If you go into into it with a closed mind and the idea that you have heard it all before, then you probably won't get much out of it. OTOH, if you open your mind to it, I'm sure that there is always something new to learn or relearn. As far as cost goes...I don't know about other councils, but in our council we pay nearly the same amount of money -to be on staff- as the participants pay! Would anyone in their right mind do that if they really didn't feel the course was not worth it?? There is are royalties to pay, licensing fees...food to buy (3 meals a day for everyone!) supplies to buy..reams of paper etc. Don't let someone else decide what might or might not be useful to YOU!! Sue M. Link to post Share on other sites
John-in-KC 311 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 I have to agree with SueM here. I spent 20+ years learning and practicing leadership. At the end of the day, military service is about leading people off to do things. WB was a revisit to old ground. BUT!!!!! Revisiting old ground can bring an alternate perspective. More importantly, because of where I chose to do WB (out of my normal BSA Council netowrk), I broadened my network of Scouters I can learn from, ask for help from, and give help to. It's all about the people, and the people are all about raising young men to be great young adults. Link to post Share on other sites
featherbear 10 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 John-in-KC: "More importantly, because of where I chose to do WB (out of my normal BSA Council network), I broadened my network of Scouters I can learn from, ask for help from, and give help to. " Hear, hear John, me too! And how! I went to the neighboring Council for my WB in which I knew next to nobody, and now I have this big ol' huge network of friends, sources of information, contacts, etc. that I likely never would have had if I hadn't gone up there to WB. It's amazing how many Scouters look down their noses at me when they find out..."Oh. You went up THERE?!? Why wouldn't you take WB here???" Please... Scouting should not be confined to a bubble. But that's opening up a whole new can o' worms, isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites
knottyfox 10 Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Newbie Den Leader, Take the course! It's great fun! I have had the priviledge of being on staff for the older course and the newer one. By doing so, I have seen the sylibus and no place in it does it state "Wood Badge Elitism and Arrogance"! Yes, I have encountered folks that feel that Woodbadge has set them apart as well as many others that just plain had fun. A set of Woodbadge beads is almost as common as a trained patch. Anyone can take the course, you are not called up from the elite to participate. Elitism and arrogance concerning woodbadge is about the individual and not the course! Go in the spirit of fun and have a great time! Knotty Fox Running Fox Patrol SR-286 Yip, Yip! P.S. Wear your beads! What is wrong with showing your support for a wonderful Boy Scout program? Link to post Share on other sites
scoutmom111 10 Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 The cost of the course is hard enough, especially as both my husband and I went... it goes to supplies, food, and lots of props. The worse cost was when we were told to make gifts for up to 4 guests per meal at 4 meals, plus the flag, plus the new name tags, plus embellishments for others, plus a centerpiece, plus making a miniture flag for our SM, plus gift for the staff, plus the cost of our patrol project, plus the cost of our conservation project (we were told there was wood available then found out NOT... we had to provide it, and the cost of printing, laminating, plexiglass, screws ... we were assigned to replace signs on a trail... and told to add 5 new plants!!!)...plus I didn't have a full uniform. I used the money we had saved for my uniform to send our son to NOAC this year. At the last minute they found an opening for him... oF course this is all after paying for 2 at scout camp, 2 at Mackinaw camp, NOAC etc... etc... there is no diversity in scout training if it involves the family resources!!! Oh, yea, and we were given $120 for 6 meals, 4 of which are to be made for 10 (6 in our patrol and 4 guests). That comes to $2 per person per meal and 2 of the meals are back packing meals. Thank goodness I am a really good shopper. They basically told us that we would just have to pay any extra out of our pocket!!! Link to post Share on other sites
emb021 16 Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 "The worse cost was when we were told to make gifts for up to 4 guests per meal at 4 meals, plus the flag, plus the new name tags, plus embellishments for others, plus a centerpiece, plus making a miniture flag for our SM, plus gift for the staff, plus the cost of our patrol project, plus the cost of our conservation project" Be aware that none of these costs are mandated by the course syllabus. This is all stuff mandated by your local council and its WB traditions. I can tell you that on the course I staffed that we: * left it up to the partrol to have or not have gifty items for staff. Those that did, all were inexpensive little doodads, and I was fine with that. * There were only 2 guests with each patrol at meals, not 4. * name tag was part of the course materials, and most people WANT them because they are special leather WB nametags. * patrol projects were all inexpensive, consisting of poster boards and the like. * there was no cost for the conservation project. * the centerpieces was left to the patrols to make or not. * no idea about the flas you mention. Link to post Share on other sites
purcelce 11 Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 emb, Thanks for the blurb. I've already shelled out almost 300 bucks (fees, uniforms, and extra t-shirts)for WB that starts in two weeks. I'm not sure if my piggy bank can handle any other expenses. Cary P Link to post Share on other sites
EagleInKY 14 Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 I'm with Emb on this. This sounds more like local traditions than official WB. We didn't have nametags, so that would be the only difference between my answers and his. Our gift to our Troop Guide cost about $35 bucks, and sense we ran under budget on our food, I think it only cost about $4 a piece. Link to post Share on other sites
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