Are you really "Trained"?

[Newbie Den Leader 10]

Trained

 

We all know the patch and many of us wear it. The idea behind the patch is a good one, but the quality of the training I received was not very good. Regardless of the low quality, the adult leaders received their Trained patches anyway. After that experience, my view of the Trained patch has diminished. All it tells me is that you attended the prescribed classes and were declared Trained.

 

It seems to me that Trained should reflect that you passed an examination that shows you actually attained a knowledge of basic essentials and not simply attended a lecture. I recommend a minimum skills test written by the BSA should be a part of the training in order to standardize the quality of the program.

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Are my standards are too high? Earning the Trained patch should not be made difficult, but neither should it be relegated to the same level as an activity patch.

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Ahhhh....

 

The "Trained" strip is only part of the process. It doesn't mean you are experienced ...

 

That's what the various knots do... they indicate not only that you've been "trained" but that you've been there and done the job, hands on, for 2-3 years!!!

 

When you complete the classes, your trainers should have given you a qualification card towards earning the adult knot as "insert position" Scouter in a Pack.

[MarkS 11]

Taking basic training is the beginning of a continuous learning process. All we should expect out of NLE and Leader Specific Training is a basic understanding of our program, position, and resources for further learning. Adding a test won't add value. Continuous learning thru regular attendance of roundtables, networking, and advanced classes via Pow Wow, University of Scouting, Outdoor Skills, and even Wood Badge. Heck, reading the manual helps too. However, if you really what to learn a lot, help out on staff at a day camp or join your district training staff.

 

The most important job in Cub Scouts is the Den Leader. Den Leaders are the ones that have the most impact on membership retention. If your unit doesn't have good Den Leaders, other than taking over as den leaders, there's nothing a Committee Chair or Cubmaster can do to fix that. That said, maybe the most important training for a unit is how to recruit strong Den Leaders and not NLE/LST.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[scoutldr 726]

I have always disliked the "Trained" strip. Dogs and monkeys can be "trained". Leaders need to be "educated". Attending training courses imparts knowledge, hence "education". That doesn't ensure that people will put that knowledge into practice. In my opinion, there should be recognition for leaders whose programs exemplify the methods and ideals of their respective program. Sitting and watching a video is easy. Translating that into results is hard and takes a dedicated volunteer.

[LongHaul 10]

I just served as SPL for our local Okpik course. In stead of TRAINED patches we gave out a strip that says "Je suis prets" which is French for "I am ready". It is not regulation but it does say more than TRAINED in my opinion.

LongHaul

[Newbie Den Leader 10]

QUOTE: "All we should expect out of NLE and Leader Specific Training is a basic understanding of our program, position, and resources for further learning."

 

That's what I expected and not what I received. To their credit, the NLE training was "okay", but the Leader Specific Training for Den Leaders was poor. It was basically a Q&A time for for folks that did not know the color of the cub scout uniform (not an exaggeration). Additional information imparted to us did not go much deeper than that.

 

A test would indeed add value. Testing forces the students to pay attention and the trainers to better prepared. For now, the "Trained" patch simply means I attended and warmed a seat. The current structure has good value, but I don't believe it qualifies anyone as "Trained". We all know better, don't we?

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

There is a test: It's called hands-on service. It's pass-fail.

 

If you do not get and maintain the confidence of your parents (since you are a Cub leader), you will fail, because the parents will pull their boys. Likewise, if you do not get and maintain a sense of fun and adventure amongst your Cub Scouts, you will fail, because they will tell their parents ... "we didn't do anything" and after a while, they will pull their boys.

 

The one best way for you to help improve Scouting training is to get involved ... in your Pack, in your District, at Council, and Lord willing, eventually at Regional and National. From your comments, it sounds like training is a true hot button. If it is, then you owe it to yourself to get involved, and work to the goal of being an agent of change.

[MaScout 10]

Training is a multi-faceted concern...

 

There is a set of prescribed material that National says should be included in every training session. Is it always presented? Is it always presented in an interesting way? Is the material itself always interesting? Unfortunately the answer to all of these is often NO. Newbie, if this is the material you missed, you might ask the district trainer (or your Pack Trainer) if you could borrow the syllabus to read through for better absorption & understanding. Perhaps mention it better matches your learning style to read it, than to say it wasn't taught. (Incidentally, Den Leader Specific has some great material in it.)

 

Depending on the group, what the participants want to come away with might change. When I serve as a trainer, I try to go through the required stuff as efficently as possible, leaving plenty of time for Q&A, but not to the detriment of the training itself.

 

Often the participants want to know how to make the program "work". This is NOT covered in what National sends out. This comes with experience. Hopefully the training team has this. This is good to cover during Q&A. I have some "Sample Plans" I sometimes share with participants. This isn't a hard & fast rule, but gives the floundering den leader an idea of how to put a program together.

 

Quality of training has been hotly discussed in this forum before. It can be GREAT! But it can also be dismal. I am so sorry yours was not-so-good. I've attended both. The bad made me try harder to deliver the good when I train. Sometimes I still fail to deliver a great training. But feedback from people with experiences like yours help me to improve. I hope your trainers are open-minded and will listen and hear!

[funscout 11]

I took Tiger Leader training when I became my younger son's Tiger Leader. I had already experienced Tiger Cubs with my older son (but not as the Den Leader), and had taken Cub Scout leader training when I was Den Leader for Older Son's Wolf and Bear dens. I did not learn anything new at the Tiger training, and ended up answering questions that the instructor didn't know.

 

At the time that I took Tiger Training, I was also Older Son's Webelos DL. I couldn't take both trainings at the same time, and since I had 2 co-leaders with the Webelos den, (one of them did get trained) I felt I should do Tigers. It was very difficult being the leader of 2 dens, so I dropped my Web. DL position for Older Son's second year, and just did Wolf with Younger Son. The "trained" Web. DL continued to call me with questions about how to do things and what activities to do!

 

This Fall, I took Webelos training, (I'm DL for younger son's den) and once again, I learned nothing new, and ended up answering the new leaders' questions.

 

I wish there were a better way for "experienced" but not "specifically" trained Scouters to earn their training.

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

funscout...

 

Same advice. Get involved in cub leader training in your district. When you own responsibility for the product, you have a the chance to improve the product's quality!!!

[Newbie Den Leader 10]

Thanks for your wisdom and comments. I probably need to have better training on the culture of training in the BSA. My expectations of course-level training may be too high and unrealistic. Im a new adult leader, but not new to working with boys, and Im not new to the Boy Scouts as I was one as a youth.

 

I do understand that real training is ultimately hands-on service and multi-faceted. Im very active with my Pack and Den, and that has been the best trainingperiod. Along with that, I desire to take as many relevant courses the BSA has to offer in order to make me a better leader for the benefit of myself, and the scouts and parents I serve.

 

[Lisabob 13]

Newbie DL, I too have sat through some rather useless training sessions so that I could be considered "trained." So I sympathize. I will say this though. In every session, I've learned at least one new thing, or else had reason to consider my (and the pack/troop's) approach to situations from new perspectives. If nothing else, going to even rather useless trainings got me thinking about how to deliver the program better in my home unit.

 

Now I'm not excited about wasting my time (and money!) either. Our district charges a fair amount for even basic leader training so my view is that they'd better deliver something worthwhile in exchange, or I won't be back anytime soon. I'll go to future trainings in other districts or councils instead, where I know (word of mouth) that training is of better quality. And as our pack's training chair and unofficially, beginning to do something similar for the troop, I'll make sure I direct other leaders to other training sources too, if that's what's necessary. And I've occasionally let our district staff know this, as have other scouters. The market can be a wonderful thing! (Of course, I have that luxury, given that I live on the border of three separate councils, with a fourth not too far away.)

 

In reality: I've only felt the need to do this for one particular type of training that I think our district has consistently done a poor job with. And from what I hear, the training staff has been trying to improve the quality of that session after receiving copious feedback to that effect. So I'll give them some credit I guess.

 

As for others' comments about getting involved on the training team, I agree that this is one way to improve things. Of course that supposes that a) the district is open to new people on the team and b) you are able to devote some time to it, without detracting from the job you do within your unit. That "hour a week" only stretches so far sometimes.

 

I've helped conduct a fair amount of training, both in BSA context and elsewhere. One ubiquitous problem with "basic" training like NLE and Leader-Specific is that the audience is so varied. Some are brand new to scouting and the BSA. Some were scouts as youths so at least have a clue (or think they do, anyway). Others have been involved for decades and probably do know more than anybody on the presentation team. (These people ought to be approached to be part of the team, once they are trained, and depending on their people skills) So from the trainer's perspective, these intro-level trainings are often more difficult to pull off effectively, than the more specialized trainings.

 

Not that this excuses poor training though; it just makes it harder to do well.

 

Finally I don't see a written test as a good solution. That will probably deter people from doing the training, who otherwise would actually benefit. Also I'm not confident that the BSA bigwigs would develop a test that is suitable. My concern is that it would either end up being of the "well duh!" variety (kind of like the test at the end of the online YPT module) or it might be so focused on minutia as to be irrelevant to actually delivering a good scouting program.

 

Anyway, my own experience with BSA training has been that the further you go, the more useful the training is. I got a lot more from BALOO and OLS and Woodbadge than I ever got out of NLE and Leader-Specific training. So don't give up hope yet!

 

Lisa'bob

[le Voyageur 72]

 

The "Trained" patch is something that I don't wear. It's redundant. My Woodbadge beads, and Commissoner Arrowhead are enough doodads on a uniform. Now, if BSA would only come out with a High Adventure, and a Camp Staff square knot, then I might consider adding that to the uniform..

[Newbie Den Leader 10]

Maybe the name should be changed to "Basic Trained" rather "Trained". "Trained" gives the impression that someone has mastered a set of required skills. Before I became an adult leader and was outside-looking-in, that's what I thought it meant. Boy, was I wrong!

 

 

[dlearyous 10]

Well your posts bring up an interesting question I have then. Our Cub Scout Leader Specific training is done as a group. If I am understanding your posts, we are actually supposed to have different sessions for each position? I also did not learn anything new from the Specific training. I definately didn't understand why we all had to pay different course fees when we were all getting the same lesson. The fee was even supposed to inlude all materials and lunch, but it didn't. We just got a print out of the information we went over: Pack organizaton and elements of a good meeting. Well, I guess we did get the trained tab (this time, although not at other trainings). This also leads to the question, why would I have to retake this exact same training in order to use it for a separate knot if I wanted to earn another one?