"Fewer and fewer Scouts are really "Scouty".

[Eamonn 61]

As someone who was born and raised in London at a time when only the well to do parents owned cars, I don't buy into the idea that there is no place to camp and play this game.

Some time back I was with a bunch of younger Scouts, we were going over some cooking skills.One little Lad had never ever cooked anything, other than stuff that he put in the microwave. The Lad had never ever in his entire life cracked an egg and cooked it.

I was shocked and more than a little taken back!! Heck everyone cooks an egg - Don't they?

But then the little Grey cells started working and I remembered that when I was his age, my Mum was a stay at home Mum, who took care of the house and raised us four kids and waited on my Dad. I don't think Dad could cook an egg!!

It wasn't until I joined Scouts that I was given the opportunity to learn how to cook an egg.

The point of all this is that I was given the opportunity. There was a caring, understanding adult who took the time to show me how and then let me loose with a supply of food.

This was in a time when all Scout Patrol cooking was done over wood fires. So there was a little more than just the egg involved.

I understand that wood fires are now not the best way to cook eggs and in some places wood fires are just not allowed. Still the idea that we the adults do need to take the time and pass on even simple skills is very much a biggie.

Many years later after messing up one career choice I went on to become a certified executive chef. In part thanks to that egg.

Eamonn.

[Its Me 10]

 

Sadly, nostalgia is just not what it used to be. (sigh)

[SR540Beaver 116]

E,

 

Boy, this gets scarier all the time. I've said before that I've wondered if you were my long lost brother. The little Beav (12)has said before that he might want to be a chef when he grows up and loves watching Food Network. That is when he doesn't want to be a policeman or a marine. Her who must be obeyed came home from a business trip last night about 11:30 which is usually his bedtime. Her first request when she walked thru the door was for him to cook her some scambled eggs. I don't recall if he learned it at home or in scouts, but he perfected it in scouts. BTW, there was a time that I considered being a chef too.

[madkins007 10]

Kids HAVEN'T changed?

 

My wife, a Kindergarten teacher, has volumes of data about the changes between kids today and the kids the same age of 10, 20, 30 and 40 years ago.

 

OK, sure, they are still carbon-based units, but other than that, kids today are significantly different than most of us were 40 years ago.

 

They physically mature faster, are taller and heavier (even when not obese), suffer from more allergies, and present other physical differences.

 

They live a different lifestyle than we did- as has been well described in other threads around here. They do not engage in unsupervised play, they do not have as many neighborhood friends, they don't engage in the same hobbies or are enticed by the same toys...

 

We can go on and on. Yes, absolutely, there are MANY things they still have in common with kids from the 60's or 80's.

 

Of course, there are still youth that are excited by a well-run Scout program- but there are also well-identified trends that indicate youth are less interested in joining groups, and in the outdoors in general.

 

 

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

I purchased 3+ acres behind our home this past year. It has a steep hill, ruts from sheet wash and enough problems that nobody else wanted it. It is in the form of a long piece of pie. It has fallen trees and rocks both small and large. The people that sold it knew that it would be difficult to build a home on because of the lack of a road and the rough contour, so it cost a fraction of what other property in the neighboring area costs.

 

When I first saw it, all I could see were these large trees, check dam projects, natural camping spots, and quiet walks where few people come and little noise interfered. I could also see tree houses in the biggest trees around anywhere, zip lines down and across open areas. I could see actual camping in woods where the lack of zoning allows for us to use wood for campfires. There is a wide area for a field for games of all kinds. There are plenty of trees both fallen and dying from the forest canopy for pioneer projects. I began some of the check dams this last winter. It will take about three years to bring about some of the environmental changes. It will be in time for the boys to get a little older and to gain skills and learn some of the things that it takes to enjoy a place that nobody else wanted.

 

I can understand the reason behind some of the changes in boys. Lack of access is part of the problem. If a Scout does not have access to an area that allows for an imagination to work, then it simply won't develop in that direction. Providing full access to the woods on a regular basis can bring about the kind of Scouty stuff that is now missing.

 

 

FB

 

 

[Bob White 20]

From the vantage point of the methods and mission onf the BSA, the differences observed by Madkins are a matter of packaging, the product inside has alktered very little. Things like delf image, self reliance, a charcater in active development, the stages of social development, the actual inner workings of a childs development ahve changed very little, scouting has made slight alterations over they ars to accomodate those changes and is still a relevant program in every aspect..

[Eamonn 61]

OK, I'll buy into most if not all of the changes in our youth.

But what makes a Scout "Scouty?"

I really liked the analogy about the dog water bowl.

Very few if any Lads are going to master the art of Scouting without the leadership and knowledge that we the adults provide.

Could it be that the Leaders are less Scouty?

Eamonn

[Kahuna 172]

Eamonn, I think you hit the nail on the head! Boys have changed, yes, but they still respond the "old" program just the same as they have for almost 100 years. I haven't been directly involved in Boy Scouting for almost 15 years, but I can tell by the posts on these forums and the units that I see from here and the mainland that the leaders are indeed different.

 

Back in the 1960's, the BSA decided that it was "too hard" for many units (urban units) to do camping and outdoor activities, so they dumbed down the program and added a lot of silly activities (and, of course, skill awards). Big mistake! When Bill Hillcourt came out of retirement and rewrote the handbook, he got all that stuff back in there and Scouting flourished again.

 

All our Bill Hillcourts are gone now, as far as I can tell, but outdoor Scouting and all the same old activities are still what boys are craving.

[Bob White 20]

Kahuna your scouting history is in error. The urban program did not take place in the 60's. It happened in 1976, and lasted only a few years. By 1979 it had returned to the more traditional program.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[SWScouter 34]

Bob White, do you mean 1972, not 1976? I remember that the program switched on me and I still have my scout belt with 8 (I think) skill awards on it. By 1976, I was about done with boy scouts as a youth.

 

SWScouter

[ljnrsu 10]

Bob your Scouting history is also in error. Urban scouting came into effect with the Eighth edition of the Boy Scout Handbook.The first printing of this Handbook was June 1972,I have a copy in my scouting library. That is when skill awards were first introduced,along with MB's being required for Tenderfoot,2nd and 1st Class advancement. Another major change was the the number of MB's needed to earn Eagle was increased from 21 to 24. It wasn't until 1979, when Bill Hillcourt wrote the Ninth edition of the Boy Scout Handbook, that Urban scouting was dropped.

 

[Eamonn 61]

Today was load the personal Jamboree equipment on the truck day.

I really like the Scoutmaster from the other Troop that our Council is sending. He is just a real nice fellow and I know that he has a good understanding of Scouting and how a Troop is run.

He mentioned that over the past few months he has had six older Scouts transfer into the Troop he serves. This was causing him a little distress, he didn't want people to think that he was going out to take boys from other Troops, he said that he mentioned this to his DE, who said that he was aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the Troops in the District and that he had checked out the units before placing his son in a unit (The Lad is in this Troop!!)

As we sat waiting for parents to arrive, it was mentioned that most of the little fellows who cross over really have no idea what a good or a bad program is, they just join.

I am happy that these six older Lads with the help of their parents did seek out a Troop that offers a good program. I am just so sad that so many others don't.

Hey Bob, will you be wearing your Sea Scout uniform at the Jambo?

Eamonn.

[Bob White 20]

Sorry,Yes it was the 1972 handbook that removed utdoor skills from Frst Cass. Wish I could say it was a typo but I got the year wrong, it was 76 that had that awfull white cover.

 

But it was not the sixties as originally posted and the trend lasted a very short time. After which Hillcourt was brought back to re-write the Handbook.

[Kahuna 172]

Bob, you will seldom find me wrong on Scouting history, but it does happen. It didn't happen in this case. The program was developed in the late sixties (I was there) and implementation of testing was done then. You are correct that the handbooks did not come out until the early 70's.

 

Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Yada, yada.

[madkins007 10]

Ah, the Great Polyesterization of Scouting in the 70's. I remember it well! It cost our troop several great Scouts and leaders for one reason or another.

 

I think a lot of the confusion over when it happened was because it was phased in over several years in bits and pieces. Some went fast, others lingered as old stock was sold. Some was well-distributed, other parts were more poorly distributed across all units. Here in the midwest, I suspect we did it on a different schedule than other areas might have- things tend to occur more slowly here.