Lessons in Group Dynamics 2

[Bob White 20]

I ask that comments be self-controlled to discussing only the topic at hand.

 

Using the information gained through Wood Badge for the 21st Century, how many see a correlation between the stages of group dynamics and what is happening in the thread on Patrol Size at the moment. What was the catalyst? How long will each stage take? What is the expected outcome? What is the next step?

 

How does this relate to the patrol method and patrol organization? (and it absolutely does)

[Eamonn 61]

I had to think on this one a while.

I see where you are going but don't think this will get us there.

It is a lot easier for me to answer the last part first but that would be cheating.

I did notice that the last time you mentioned this you didn't use the terms that Ken Blanchard uses. I'm going too.

Where I am having my big problem is that I'm a little unsure what the goal was /is?

I think the goal was to supply mich 632 with information about the optimum patrol size.

In fact looking at what he posted more closely I see that he was trying to do a survey. Something I did overlook when I replied.

In fact me not really looking at what the goal was and me getting it wrong is part of the reason why we were all at:

Pickup Sticks.

We all took off in different directions. The goal was sat sitting there but we were all happy to shoot off in different directions.

Our next step was that we became

At Odds. The goal remained the same but the morale of the posters fell off. It was if half of us were shooting for the goal or at least in that direction.

Sad to say I think this is where we left it.

Hopefully if we had continued we would have found common ground and reached the

Coming around stage.

All of us seeing the goal, maybe still coming at it from different directions but we would have

Come around.

Maybe given enough time we would have all seen the goal and worked

As One -

All of us working as one heading toward the goal as one.

We would have come through

Orientation - Pick Up Sticks

Dissatisfaction - At Odds

Resolution - Coming Around

As One - Performance.

The Catalyst? What changed the goal? I think came when we started looking at combining Patrols for camp- outs. Once this crept in some of us (Me!!) Lost sight of the goal.

As for the length of time each step would take?

I think that as we don't have any way of knowing what is going to happen next or who is going to do what next there is no way of knowing how long each step would take. Someone or something could pop up and we might have to go back to the start.

It's getting late I will sleep on this and come back to it later.

Eamonn

[Bob White 20]

I was speaking more along the lines of the 4 phases of team development.

 

What is the first phase and what can cause it? Have we seen that here?

[LovetoCamp 9]

forming, storming, norming, and performing!!! Lotta Storming going on. Whining doesn't rhyme.

 

 

[Backpacker 11]

NO correlation, and apparently very little interest in the topic. Carpe diem Bob!

[evmori 11]

Since I haven't taken the 21st Century Woodbadge, I can't comment! But there doesn't seem to be much interest in this topic.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White 20]

And what can happen within a group to cause it to storm TP?

 

Sorry backpacker, I didn't mean to leave you out. You mentioned that you were on staff for WB for 21st Century, what do remember as being a cause for storming in an established group?

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[dan 10]

Teams are in a constantly ending cycle of forming, storming, norming, performing.

A team goes through each cycle, and sometimes back in the cycle, it could be one or three steps back in the cycle depending on many things.

 

A new goal can send a team back to any place in the cycle.

A new member can do the same thing to a team, or a lost member.

 

From NYLT. not woodbadge.

[evmori 11]

Sounds like basic problem solving with different terminology!

[dan 10]

This is not problem solving. It is understanding group dynamics and how to work with, coach, help a team (think patrol).

Think of Patrol Leader, Troop Guide, SPL, working with a patrol.

Or think of a forum!

[Bob White 20]

So adding new members can cause a team to storm. Have you noticed an addition of a number of new members to the forum just before this brewhaha began? The last time this happened (about two months ago) we had just gotten a group of new members.

 

What is storming and what purpose does it serve?

 

Totally unrelated to problem solving, but nice try.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Backpacker 11]

It amazes me Bob how you always have to find someone else to blame for the problems you create with your attitude and critcism. It is not the new members you need to look at, it is your own self indulgent attitude. This forum belongs to all whether they agree with you or not. So look down and deep inside yourself Bob and you will find the true cause of the problem.

 

[dan 10]

Unscoutlike storming!

[Eagledad 2779]

Hi All

 

I would like to contribute and please understand that I am not suggesting any finality to this subject. I have a lot of knowledge and experience with the four stages of team development and in my humble opinion this situation doesnt fit under the model. It is missing two basic ingredients for the Team Development Model. Eamonn mentioned one, which is Goals. The other is the leader. Neither of which is in the forum format.

 

There is another Leadership Training Lesson Ive seen at Management trainings which discusses the differences in Group Dynamics and Team Dynamics. The basic difference between the two is Team Dynamics has a leader and a goal. Group dynamics might stumble into either one, but usually doesnt have either one. And the members in the group dont see themselves as a team. Just the same interest.

 

That blows away the first stage because there is no vision for anyone to achieve. Oh maybe one or two are looking to get something, but basically there is no one idea or goal to hold the group together. Without stage one, there is no reason for anyone to put up with the struggle and pain of stage two. Even more important from a leadership point of view, there is no leader to keep everyone on task or remind them of the team goal, which is critical in stage two.

 

I do agree there were more new members, but the old timers drove the discussion dynamics. The new members just didnt like it and Im wondering if we old timers are just too proud to listen to them or ask the right questions.

 

Another thing, while we continue this discussion, I think you can look through other discussion in other subjects along the same general time frame and see much of the same thing going on. Maybe its the weather.

 

Interesting discussion. Have a great week and carry on.

 

Barry

 

[evmori 11]

Thanks for straightening me out dan.

 

Barry,

You are one insightful dude!

 

Backpacker,

Would love to split a pot of joe over a campfire with you!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10