Training

[mk9750 11]

Well, I finally jumped in and did Troop Committee Challenge this weekend. I have been working to get five or six of our core committee members to attend with me, but it ended up being only two of us.

 

Although I did not go with the intend to prove myself right, I now know why I don't hold WoodBadge Trainig in very high regard. I'm sure it is strictly our group of trainers, but I again feel as though the whole traing excersize in our District is "Big Person Scouting" for the "in" people in the District. It really seemed to have little in common with what I have come to know as the Scouting program.

 

For instance, at one point we were split up and formed a committee. We were each assigned responsiblities: CC, Advancement Corrdinator, COR, Equipment Coordinator, Chaplain, Outdoor Activities Coordinator, Sectretary, Treasurer (I think I've got them all). We were asked to evaluate a case study and detrmine what each of us would be responsible for, and how we would fulfill or responsiblity.

 

One of the issues was the need to write thank you notes to a land owner who let our "Troop" use his property to camp. The "official" answer was that the Secretary should do this. When I objected and sugessted that this was a job that a boy could and should handle, the answer was "well, then what would the Secretary do if we gave that job to a boy?" The same thing as far as equipment goes. A stove had been dropped and needed replaced. The "official answer was that the Equipment Coordinator should attempt to repair the stove, and, if it needed replaced, he should submit a request to the committee. Again, I suggested that sounds like the job of the QM, and I was told that if the QM was going to do all the work, we woulnd't need adults.

 

There was a big discussion about Troop Handbooks. Not a discussion as to whether they are valuable or not, as we have discussed here, but a discussion about how it's important for the boys to know what rules the adults want followed. How's that for a boy run program?

 

My problem with WoodBadge in our Council is that it is run by this same group of people. I see it as promulgating more of the good ole' boy network, without really teaching people how to help boys with their program.

 

I'm sure I sound frustrated, and that's because I am. I spent three and a half hours of my time on Saturday (time I was scheduled to spend working with three guys on Personal Managment Merit Badge) listening to blow hards self grandize about how vital our role as adults is.

 

OK, venting done.

 

Mark

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"Again, I suggested that sounds like the job of the QM, and I was told that if the QM was going to do all the work, we woulnd't need adults."

 

This would be a bad thing? I'm sure that our troop Secretary would love it if the Scribe would handle 99% of the membership paperwork.

 

As for the troop handbook, our target audience is the adults.

[Scoutmaster Ron 12]

Mark,

 

Was the training valuable to the committee? I have a similar situation in which the committee in the troop I serve has not gone thru training in the 3 years I've been a part of it and probably not ever.

[Overtrained 10]

Mark,

 

I'm sorry you had a poor experiance with Troop Committee Challenge. It can be beneficial when done correctly. Let me clarify what I understood you to state and see if I can clear the muddy water a little.

 

Responsibilities for what you describe do fall under the troop committee repsonsibility, however, many of those positions do have youth counterparts ( as you mentioned). As much as possible, the youth should perform those tasks with the adult mentoring them. Depending on ability, not everything will be done by the youth. The "game" you described doesn't always make that distinction. The trainer, imho, should have.

 

As to be "Wood Badge" trained, well some take away from the training some knowledge, others just have the knowledge that they took the training.

[mk9750 11]

FOG,

 

I hoped my point was clearer than maybe it was. It IS a good thing if Scouts are responsible for running the Troop, and if fewer adults are necesary. In your situation, where the secretary would love for the Scribe to handle 99% of the membership issues, in our Troop, the Scribe does about 80%. He maintains the roster and keeps it up to date (from the Scout side). He verifies the information is current on the rechartering paperwork. He checks advancement status agains TroopMaster and makes corrections. He verifies that the parts of Quality Unit the boys are responsible for have been done (for instance, the Scribe used to keep a roster of Boys Life subscribers. Last year's Scribe forgot to teach the new Scribe this, so the new Scribe had to aske each of the boys at recharter time). After he is finished with his work, the CC, the Treasurer and I (advancements) review his work, help him make corrections if necesary, and add the material that the boys aren't responsible for. Some years, this goes very well. This year, it didn't go so smoothly. But it was done mostly by the Scribe and the ASPL, and it was correct and on time in the end. Our secretary has two responsiblities: Keeping notes at the committee meeting and disbursing minutes.

 

What's been interesting about how we do this is that everyone wants to be on the committee: We have 27 Scouts right now. We have a SM corps of 10, and registered committee member roster of 27. With one single parent home, and one family with two boys in the troop, that means we have 37 of 51 parents registered. Each oversees one small part of what the boys do. For instance, one parent's sole responsiblity is to make sure the QM arranges a detail of guys to clean, "Wax" and store all of our kayaks. She did nothing more than metion it to the QM, and 2 weeks later asked if it were done. A week after that, she walked over to the barn where we store stuff with the QM and verified it. Literally, she did nothing more than ask a few questions.

 

Ron,

 

Sorry, I don't think I can answer the question fairly. As I said, we only had one other committee member go. He was saying that it would have been valuable for a couple of our committee, particularly the CC and the treasuer. But they did not attend. My opinion? If you want to set up the Troop so that the committee does everything for the boys, than the training I went to would be helpful. More likely, I suspect the training I went to doesn't reflect what the class really is supposed to reflect. I could see it being beneficial, but not the way it was done in our District.

 

Mark

[Eagledad 2777]

Run Mark run. This is how I got to be a trainer. I was not satisfied with the program, so I said so. Whoops, now I'm responsible for the SM Specific training in our District. I could have more training responsibilities if I wanted.

 

So what if you do train? Well about three months ago, a scouter friend saw me one morning at a diner drinking coffee. He sat down for just enough time to tell me how they (several students of mine) where making changes in their Troop. Their Troop is big enough to be a district on its own. And they have tried to run the district. I have a lot of respect for the SM, he truly has the scouts interest at heart. But he has a very adult run hand. He has a reputation in the whole state as a very opinionated person about how things are done. Anyway, this scouter told me how the six of them wanted the troop to be a little more toward the BSA program, Boy Run are the words they used. And he is allowing a few changes.

 

The Scouter then told me it was the training that got them reading the books and understanding scouting other than what the SM says it is. Training was bringing a positive change to a unit that felt their program is the definition of scouting.

 

Offer yourself to the training committee. It really only takes a few hours out of your time. And then you can bring a little change.

 

Great subject Mark.

 

Barry

[evmori 11]

Mark,

Sounds like your training course sucked! Too bad. And if this is the same crew that runs Woodbadge I feel for the volunteers in your council. You can go out of council for Woodbadge!

 

I have felt the BSA has too much training available and therefore things like your experience happen. And no one is really trained. I have always felt if there is a general training course for everyone with breakout sessions for spscific jobs in Scouting this is more effective!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"I hoped my point was clearer than maybe it was"

 

I got your point, it looks as though my point was missed.

[mk9750 11]

FOG,

 

Actually, I did understand it. I wasn't sure though, and, as is my style, I figured it was my poor communication skills that caused the confusion. Now that we've gone around the entire circle, I think we both understand each other.

 

EagleDad,

 

I was just speaking to our SM about this same thing. On the exterior, I dread the possiblity that I could be drafted. He speaks about complaining that there were no Climbing MB Counselors, and all of a sudden he is in charge of instructing all of the Climbing MB Counselors in the Council.

 

On the other hand, be it Freudian or otherwise, I signed my evaluation with my unit number and phone number. I didn't conscisously ask to be recruited to the training team, but I wonder if at some level I didn't know that could be a result. We'll see.

 

I will tell you that I wonder how much value one person swimming against the tide can be. The 6 - 10 well established people doing the Training in our district and Council are not likely to be affected by one lone voice singing the virtues of a boy run emphasis. I know that it'll never get better if someone doesn't start, but I don't know that I have the will to work through the hassles that would come.

 

I'll keep my mind open, but I just don't see how I can reaaly change things.

 

Mark

[Eagledad 2777]

>>I will tell you that I wonder how much value one person swimming against the tide can be.

[Scoutmaster Ron 12]

mk..

Sorry if I seemed to imply I want the committee to do everything for the boys that is not my intention, it is my opionion that everyone who is involved in the troop better understand their roles and how to serve the boys and the troop better by going thru training for their respective positions.

[Eamonn 61]

Mark

I have to admit to being a little surprised at your posting. Something must be rotten in Denmark for you to feel so put out.

You seem to be making two points. Please let me know if I have this wrong.

1/ The actual training.

2/ The Trainers.

Was this the latest Committee Training? With the jigsaw?

I have never presented this as it came out while I was Council Training Chair and I just passed it on to the District Training Chairs. I did scan through it and seem to have missed a lot. That is if the guys that you had were using it.

As for the same group of people doing all the training. I think that you will find that this is not going to happen as much in Wood Badge as it once did. I served last year as the Course Director and now I'm done. I can never again be the Course Director. National is asking that the staff of the courses be made up with people from all the program areas. As the old Cub Scout Wood Badge was done at the Regional level not that many Cub Scouter's got the opportunity to serve on staff. National is also asking that a percentage of the Staff be first timers, never having served on a course before.

At the Council and District level things can be a little tough. Please believe me as a District Chair. finding people to do the "Scout" Stuff is hard. I really do everything possible not to ask unit leaders. They have enough on their plates and our job is to support them. Something that we can't do if they are doing all the work.We do have term limits, normally three years. Some people don't take very kindly to this and even I felt that I was doing a good job in training when my term was up and would liked to have stayed on. Off course I was wrong. The new Chap is doing a wonderful job and I'm doing a better job with the district.

One thing that I did do during my term was to encourage as many people as possible to become presenters. It was a lot of extra work making sure that they knew and stuck to the syalabuss. At times it didn't work with some people. Still most of those that did take on to do a presentation did ask if they could do it again. Of course at times you have to go with what and who you have on hand at the time. Still if we found someone that just didn't get it or didn't work out we very politely didn't ask them to do it again.

At present our district needs a Cub Scout Training Chair.I have been keeping an eye out at all the B&G banquets for "Retiring" Webelos Scout Den Leaders. I will have one by the end of the month.

Eamonn

Potomac Council is hosting a Wood Badge Course this year the course director is a great guy. - You would really like him.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[Bob White 20]

Mark,

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Troop Committee Challenge. It is really an excellent course when done correctly. One problem I have is when it it run as a district or council course. TTC is designed to be done with the committee of a troop together, not mixed with other troop committees. What is the point in role playing the part of the advancement chair if you are the outdoor coordinator?

 

Each person is to play their specific role in the troop in order to gain a better understanding of your own job responsibility. for that reason we go to each troop at their convenience with the training.

 

It should have been pointed out (it's in the syllabus) that the committee members are parallels of youth officers and should make opportunities to include them in the work to help guide and develop them.

 

Eamonn,

Consider a different approach. having a District trainig team that teaches ALL program courses. Rather than have a cub training coordinator have a training coordinator with team members that are developed to present a variety of traing courses. The thought is to select people who can follow the syllabus and present the informationm in a clear, exciting, interesting style. The focus becomes the trainers ability to communicate and motivate, rather than just on their individual experience as a leader.

 

We like it here because it is helping to break down the barriers between the program levels. Its all one Scouting program, just different program stages for different ages.

[mk9750 11]

I've got a lot of answers to send. I hope I don't miss anyone.

 

Ron, I think again I have not been clear. I did not understand you to say that you want to have the committee do everything. I was taking a shot (again) at the training I got. It was aimed at what I got on Saturday, not at you.

 

EagleDad,

 

I've spent most of my life believing fervently a saying my dad repeated all the time: "All that is necesary for the triumph of evil is that good men to nothing". I know that it's overly dramatic to call this training evil. But the point is I think at some level, even if below the surface, I know I need to do something - But - I don't want to , I don't want to, I don't want to!. It seems like I do very well keeping my head down in the fox hole of my own little unit, doing what I can for it. Every time I stick my head up and sniff around District / Council stuff, I get disheartened. If asked, I'll probably say yes. But I don't think I'm going to go chasing anything down.

 

Eammon,

 

Yes, this was with the jigsaw puzzle. And quite frankly, I can envision the training being valuable. There are lot's of good info here, and, although we don't have titles like these on our committee, we do fulfill all of these functions (except Chaplain). Many of the positions described in the training are actually held by numerous people in our Troop, who would rather work their hearts out on one small aspect of a task than do an entire year's worth of a job. Dividing the work up like we do has tended to prevent overzelous parents from unsurping the boys' responsibilites, too. But I believe that during the Trianing I went through this Saturday, I never once heard anything like "This position supports the QM (or Chaplain Aide, or Scribe)". What I think I heard was people suggesting that it was more important that the Committee keep control over what was going on in the Troop.

 

As to the people involved, I've got to also say that these are some of the nicest people I have met in Scouting. I truly have no axe to grind with any of them. It is not the personality that is the problem, it's how they approach the program.

 

Two of the three people who ran this training are key staff for this year's woodbadge, as I understand. The Scoutmaster for Woodbadge was not involved in this session, and quite frankly I have a great deal of confidence in her. I have seen the results she has had in the Council JLT course for which she was the SM, particularly with what the staff learned. And perhaps, that's the way this problem goes away at Woodbadge. But I still can't get the thought out of my head of one of these trainers telling me (in different words) that it is sheer madness to allow a boy to be responsible for some of the things we ask of our boys.

 

Bob,

 

I tried like crazy, over the course of 4 committee meetings, to get our folks to do this in house. I just could not get the commitment, so I went when it was being offered to the general population of volunteers. I agree that it would be more effective if some of the activities could be Troop specific. However, I'm not sure that would have fixed this problem.

 

Thanks all for letting me vent!

 

Mark