Eamonn 61 Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Could it be that your expectations of Wood Badge are unrealistic? The course does give those that attend the tools to be a better leader. What they do with them is up to them. Much like the preacher who does his sermon on a Sunday in the hope that the flock will leave the church and not sin. Some of the non-sinners will continue not to sin. Was it worth their while attending the service? Some of the sinners will keep on sinning. Was it worth their while attending? The preacher is aware of this. Should he look for a new job? Eamonn Link to post Share on other sites
KoreaScouter 13 Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Bob; I agree with you in part. I was not involved in the curriculum rewrite, which is why I issued the disclaimer in the first paragraph of my last post. I also conceded that some of the lessons are universal. That said, it's obvious to any participant that the curriculum, while based on contemporary management/leadership theory, is tailored toward Scouting and Scouters, and is intertwined with our values. To remove the Scouting specific content would be to unravel the course to the point of making the Instructional Systems designer have to start from scratch. Here's some specifics: - The first learning objective is to "...View Scouting globally..." - The second learning objective is to "Recognize the contemporary leadership concepts utilized in corporate America and leading government organizations that are relevant to our values based movement." - The themes of the course include "Living the Values", to include the aims and methods. An "Aims of Scouting" worksheet completed as a class exercise is part of the curriculum. - The patrol projects must be relevant to all four programs, as must the conservation project. - Scouting-specific references that, again, presume the participants have internalized the Ideals of Scouting, are used throughout the handouts and course materials. Could the underlying theory and principles be adapted to any organization? Of course; they are every day by a myriad of training consultants who take those theories and tailor them to the needs of the organization who hired them. I think we're both saying the same thing here. Bottom line, I wouldn't take WB21 as designed and expect non-Scouters to get the same benefit as Scouters. I happen to be in the Boy Scouting program, so that's my current frame of reference; if it were Cubs, Varsity, or Venturers, I'm sure it would be different. Since WB21 is not program-specific, my comment should have been also...mea culpa. KS Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 - The second learning objective is to "Recognize the contemporary leadership concepts utilized in corporate America and leading government organizations that are relevant to our values based movement." Has anyone really looked at corporate America and thought about how idiotic this statement is? Corporate America is interested in short term success and the hell with the long term. They are stripping this country dry and sending middle class jobs overseas. Well, maybe that has to do with the global nature of Scouting. Link to post Share on other sites
KoreaScouter 13 Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Uh, oh -- I got him fired up...sorry! KS Link to post Share on other sites
Fuzzy Bear 12 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 My two cents worth about Wood Badge and the Scouting program: John Brizendine, President of Lockheed Aeronautical, John L. Clendenim, Chairman of BellSouth; Hollis L. Harris, President and CEO of Delta Airlines; William C. Howell, Chairman of J. C. Penny; Reuben R. Jensen, Retired V.P. of General Motors; Willard Marriott, Jr., Chairman of Marriott Corporation; Stanford McDonnell, Chairman emeritus of McDonnell Douglas, H. Ross Perot, Founder of Perot Systems, Inc.; Richard Trully, Administrator of NASA; Glen C. Cox, Chairman and COO of Phillips Petroleum; Reuben R. Jensen, Retired Executive and V.P. and Director of General Motors; Charles T. Clayton, Retired President of Liberty National Life Insurance Company; and Zenon C.R. Hansen, Chairman, Mack Trucks. What do these men have in common? They use the principles of the Scouting program as a way to develop leadership roles in their industry and they have used it successfully over the years. From, On My Honor, I Will; How one simple oath can lead you to success in business, by R. Pennington and M. Bockmon. Peter C. Browning, Chairman, CEO and President of National Gypsum Company, stated, The geographical, political, and economic structuresare undergoing rapid alteration throughout the world. Managing such changes will be the greatest challenge facing American businessThe ability to attract the right kind of leadership needed for this task will determine in large part whether we as a nation will be able to compete in this dynamic environment. The right kind of leadership is defined here as people who know and use the ideals of Scouting to manage their companies. I do not know if these men would recognize Wood Badge as the premier management course for training their managers. But, these men believe in something less complex but just as profound, the ideals of the Scouting program. They all recognize that if they are to remain successful, using the principles of Scouting is imperative. I am not a captain of industry and do not have a Ph.D. But, I have run a classroom, several Scout Units, several summer Scout Camps, a Commissioner Staff for a two county District for several years, many different District programs for weekends and week long events, Council events, a program for several hundred in my workplace. I have three degrees from two universities and several certificates. I was in the 20th Century Wood Badge, the one with the Outdoor program with the Scouting skills, the one with the patrols and the ticket items. I was in the one that is continually demeaned by many on this site. I have benefited from that experience immensely. It was taught to me over three weekends and it changed my life. I cannot say that for any of the equal amounts of the several hundred hours that I have spent in the classroom learning. I am able to lead because of what I learned from those few hours in the woods. I simply applied what I learned. I have a method to know what I need and a way to find my way when lost as a manager. I recommend Wood Badge, even without knowing the 21st Century changes. I trust that the detractors of the old course did not stray too far from something that was and is exceptional. F. Bear Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 "What do these men have in common? They use the principles of the Scouting program as a way to develop leadership roles in their industry and they have used it successfully over the years." With possibly the exceptions of Bill Marriott and H. Ross Perot, I'm not too impressed by the list. J.C. Penney is ailing. Lockheed has no loyalty to emplyees and neither did McDonnell Douglas. Corporate success is rarely a hallmark of good character. " I was in the 20th Century Wood Badge, the one with the Outdoor program with the Scouting skills, the one with the patrols and the ticket items. I was in the one that is continually demeaned by many on this site." I would never say anything bad about the old Wood Badge. Link to post Share on other sites
andrewcanoe 10 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 The wood badge for the 21st century also uses patrols and tickets. Any course no matter how good needs to change eventually. The new course has many of the elements of the older courses or so I have heard. Link to post Share on other sites
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