SeattlePioneer 144 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Do we trap Den Leaders when their boys join Tiger Cubs or Wolves, and then expect them to keep serving as Den Leaders years after year? Is that desirable or fair? What should we aim to do about it, if anything? Link to post Share on other sites
5yearscouter 52 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Basically the only time we've successfully changed den leaders without someone quitting is between the tiger and wolf year when leaders often switch around--that is if they did the tiger year right where every parent took a chance at leading and planning a bit. Even if we have a den leader who really wants to just be a parent, if they show up to a meeting in unifom, everyone just looks to them for leadership--and the other parents really pressure them to keep the job unless they were REALLY bad at it--heck often even if they are really BAD at it the other parents in the den talk them into staying. But over the years we've had most of our leaders want to stay the whole time, but we've also had 2 dens that just couldn't keep leaders or boys, not sure if it was the way the original leaders started those dens and leaders out, or if that was a bad year for parents or something. Link to post Share on other sites
howarthe 42 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 At the May pack meeting, the pack committee chairman asked me if I wanted to continue as the tiger cub den leader or if I wanted to advance with my son and serve as the wolf cub den leader. I chose to advance. I have no expectation that if I chose to resign, the pack would have found another den leader. I had been reluctant to volunteer until it became clear that there was not going to be a tiger program if I didn't. Link to post Share on other sites
suzisk8 12 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Our Tiger leader happily went to Wolf. This year she has been dealing with a lot of stuff and had to step down and wasn't sure if she was going to go to a LDS pack full time or stay with us. I decided to step up as den leader for the Bears and the core group of three of the boys are still here. The good news is that she decided to stay and is going to be my ADL, which is good because I am still recovering from my medical issues. Now we have the core group of the four boys plus three new boys and the transition has been really easy. I plan on staying with them through Webelos I & II to keep it consistent. Link to post Share on other sites
Tampa Turtle 1011 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 If you are lucky you can have a DL and a really good ADL and they switch off each year. I had that experience and we were true co-leaders by Webelos. But I lucked out that year. Link to post Share on other sites
Jeffrey H 25 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 In the Spring or earlier, we ask the current DL's if they want to continue into the next year. Most of them continue because they are enjoying the experience. If they do not want to continue or need a break, we begin looking for their replacement. We try to do this early in the year so new leaders can receive some preparation time. Change is inevitable, but I would rather prepare for it in the Spring than have no leader in place when meetings start back in September. Long-term leaders are desirable for the sake of experience and continuity. If they want to continue, more power to them. If they need to step away, that's understandable. A good point was made in the previous post. Often, a DL and an ADL can switch roles for the next year. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2779 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 >> Long-term leaders are desirable for the sake of experience and continuity. If they want to continue, more power to them. If they need to step away, that's understandable. A good point was made in the previous post. Often, a DL and an ADL can switch roles for the next year. Link to post Share on other sites
Miki 10 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Yes, Den leaders are trapped for the most part. Started as tiger den leader, became tiger coach and wolf den leader (wife of cubmaster, too). The trap is rather well constructed. A den leader becomes attached to the scouts in the den. I started with 4 tigers who were "my boys". Then in wolves I was warned to prepare for 1-2 new boys. 6 boys later, they became my top 10 favorite cub scouts. Issues with parents aside and bad days for each boy aside, they have become near and dear to my heart. I have put the same amount of effort into the success of the 10 boys as I would if I focused singularly on my own son. Some of you will say that is too many boys for a den -- I agree, but I could not decide to which ones I would break my promise of a spectacular year of fun! It is with some concern I approach this recruitment season, what will I do if only 1 or 2 new bears join? Can I deal with splitting my top 10? It will be an interesting fall. So trapped I stay. I don't like outdoors, I don't like bugs, I don't like pushy parents, I don't like paperwork. Ultimately, I will see these boys through to Boy Scouts as long as they wish to have me as their leader. I will go camping, I will get eaten alive by bugs, I will continue to deal with pushy parents and I will fill out all the necessary paperwork to see that they advance into the strong individuals I envision they will become. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2779 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Thank you Miki Barry Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Personally I think good packs tend to plan of giving den leaders a break or at least giving them a new job after a couple of years as Den Leader. Experienced Den Leaders might be tapped to be an Assistant Cubmaster or Cubmaster, and I'd look for someone with good camping skills to be a Webelos Den Leader. Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4344 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Miki, And here's hoping that if a crew of girls needs a chaperon for their expedition, you'll find yourself "trapped" on the trail (or the reef) with them too! Link to post Share on other sites
Jeffrey H 25 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Cubmasters get trapped too... Perhaps that's another discussion. Link to post Share on other sites
jpstodwftexas 72 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I Volunteered , I was not Trapped.. I may be rare as a leader..I have no kids, I just missed Scouting and I wanted to give back to scouting...I regret leaving Scouting for almost 30 years. I always made excuses as to why My Jobs would not allow me time to be involved Personally I advanced from Tiger to Wolf Den Leader because I already know the Scouts and their Family Member. No since in passing them off to an un-familar leader. Scouting is a program just like a sport..a Good Team does not change Leadership every year.. Link to post Share on other sites
ParkMan 1293 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 In his post, Barry mentioned that the cub program should be 3 years. Perhaps one thing to do is anticipate that most den leaders retire when you get to Webelos. At that point, you have a quiet discussion with the den leader and ask - "Do you really want to continue to do this?" Unless it's yes, you look around for a new den leader that starts fresh as the boys move to Webelos. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2779 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 >>Perhaps one thing to do is anticipate that most den leaders retire when you get to Webelos. Link to post Share on other sites
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