SeattlePioneer 144 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 So is it happenstance or is there a method to your method? Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Selecting would be nice..... More often than not it is just the bear den leader that moves up with the den. A super poor choice unless that Bear Den leader was a boy scout as a youth. Ideally it should be a duel registered ASM, who is fully trained in both positions, with troop from the same CO. Link to post Share on other sites
Lisabob 13 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 "A super poor choice unless that Bear Den leader was a boy scout as a youth. " Glad to know I was a "super poor choice" by way of my chromosomal make-up, basement. I think you paint with too broad a brush. But few packs I know of have a method. Most are relieved to have options at all. And yes I can agree that the "anybody with a pulse" approach is probably disastrous more often than not. Link to post Share on other sites
momof2cubs 10 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I think that while a wish list might be nice, beggars can't be choosers. Most packs I know "select" the bear leader that moved up with the den and hope for the best. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Well SP Approach a local Troop and ask about providing an ASM for the job?????? Link to post Share on other sites
mdlscouting 10 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Most Packs do not have the luxury of making a choice, It's the Bear Den Leader. (Odds are, the same person who was in that role for wolf and tiger also) However, that's perfectly ok. There is no reason that a person without direct scouting experience can't make a good Webelos Den Leader, If they are willing to pick up new skills, and reach out for assistance. Neither of My Son's current Den Leaders were ever in scouts, and I have the utmost confidence in both of them. I've seen both of them go thru the training and pick up skills. We have a meeting this week with the various Webelos Den Leaders, and one of the ASMs from the troop, to figure out what skills the den leaders have already, how the Troop can help fill any gaps, and plan out on the calendar which troop events it would be best to get the Webelos invited to. We have one ASM as our Webelos Coach, and will be having some boys fill in in the role of a Den Chief, as their schedule permits. (All the boys with the skills and temperament for that Den Chief Role are needed in their current roles in the troop for now, so we may not have official Den Chiefs for a few more years...) If we were in a perfect world, and we had a plethora of Adults who had earned their Eagle lined up to pick from, it might be different. In reality, we have 3 adults in the whole pack who were Boy Scouts. One won't step up to help at all, one I just roped into Cubmaster, and the third is our Camping Chair and participates in weekend camping trips, but can't be there on most meeting nights. There is no reason that a parent with zero youth scout experience can't become a great Scout leader at ANY level. That could be anything from a Tiger Den Leader up to a Scoutmaster. One of our Troop's ASMs is female, had no scouting experience at all before her son got involved with the troop. She was recognized by our district as the ASM of the year at the most recent adult awards banquet. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2779 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 >>However, that's perfectly ok. There is no reason that a person without direct scouting experience can't make a good Webelos Den Leader, If they are willing to pick up new skills, and reach out for assistance. Link to post Share on other sites
Ohanadad 10 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Our Web DL is a mom of a scout that crossed over. She saw first hand what he went through. I heard he wasn't ready for camping or other activities without the parents right there to help out or to do the task. She became the Web DL and made sure the boys (including her younger son) started to ween off their parents and get used to the idea of doing things for themselves. She had a hard time keeping some of the parents from jumping in when the boys first started to struggle, but I think their going in the right direction. I need to see how things go after this group crosses over next year to see if she's successful. Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 > The problem is that too many Webelos Den Leaders treat Webelos as another year of Cub Scouts. They don't recognize that boys are ready for something more ambitious and that the Webelos years should be treated as a transition to Boy Scouts. The Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills (IOLS) training which is outdoor skills training for Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters should have a component of that training for Webelos Den Leaders, although it's poorly attended in my district. A motivated WDL who knows what they should be doing can probably find the means to do the job. A WDL with substantial backpacking, climbing, hunting or military experience probably has the skills and confidence to make those Webelos years exciting. An untrained person who thinks they should be repeating the Bear year of Cub Scouts probably doesn't have a clue. Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 >>"A WDL with substantial backpacking, climbing, hunting or military experience probably has the skills and confidence to make those Webelos years exciting.">"An untrained person who thinks they should be repeating the Bear year of Cub Scouts probably doesn't have a clue. " Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Bottom line here is A successful webelos leader has High retention rate and High percentage of boys crossing over into the troop. Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 > Yabbut WHY? I'd say that often that's because the WEBELOS Den Leader has a program of age appropriate den hiking and camping and reasonably close association with the program of one or more Boy Scout troops. I would say that a WDL who is an experienced outdoor person or former Boy Scout has a real leg up in carrying out that kind of program. (One of the unstated purposes of the Scouting is to produce the next generation of Cub Scout and Boy Scout leaders!) Link to post Share on other sites
CCbytrickery 10 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Our Web 2 den leader is also the troop's CC, our ACM, and our district Popcorn Chair. (busy guy!) He is very focused on the boys, and making sure they are ready to crossover--they camp with the troop once a month, and try to squeeze in a Web campout each month as well (November, January and March they don't, as we have pack campouts). Now, our new Web 1 DL? He moved up with the den, and truth be told, I don't think he's the right guy. Not one Web 1 attended any camps this summer--not day, resident or aquatics. He spent the October campout last year watching a game on his laptop. He wears sandals with socks (knee-highs) and color coordinates. He dislikes getting dirty. Web 1 DL does teach the boys a lot--but it's almost exclusively indoor work. They can write thank you letters and have impecable manners; and (in theory) set up camp, but they are the only den I've seen in 3 years that dpes not have their boys setting up the tents with the parents (or by themselves)--the parents do it while the boys sit and play video games or run around and do things that they should know not to do (rip bark off trees, throw rocks at each other, wander off out of bounds), etc. At the above-mentioned October campout, one of the (then) Bears was lost at midnight, because he wanted to stay out with the Webelos, who were allowed out unti ten. It took the parent until midnight to realize he was gone, because he was watching something on the DL's laptop. And the DL? He went to bed, knowing this scout was missing. I am pushing to get another ADL in this group, that will be able to fix some of this, but battling the CM and that DL over this now. Just removed the treasurer (who was another piece of work) so this is my 2nd phase of fixing our pack problems. Then I have to work on the new Wolf DL/ADL. Hopefully by January, I'll have all these ducks in a row.(This message has been edited by ccbytrickery) Link to post Share on other sites
Tampa Turtle 1011 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 We usually had a tandem system--A WDL who already had a boy in boy scouts, or was a boy scouts, and intended to be an ASM after the cross-over. The AWDL was often the ongoing den leader, more of a "cubscouter", or in training. I was the AWDL for #1 son and the WDL for #2. We tried to cater to the mix of personalities and differing levels of physical maturity of the boys. Our goals: (1)Bringing in as many Boy Scouts as we could and getting them ready. (2)For those who were not crossing over we wanted them to have a real quality experience. (3) Fun! We placed a lot of emphasis on introductory scout skills--putting up a tent, fire, some knots, flag ceremonies, etc. Not at Boy Scout level but at theirs. And we still did some crafts and stuff because a lot of boys still liked it. Tightened up on uniforming, etc. My wife does Sunday School planning and this transitional age is a tough one--a lot kids drop out of a lot of things because they are (1) getting bored with the little kid stuff and (2) not quite ready for the next step. Takes a lot of care. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2779 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 >>I'd say that often that's because the WEBELOS Den Leader has a program of age appropriate den hiking and camping and reasonably close association with the program of one or more Boy Scout troops. I would say that a WDL who is an experienced outdoor person or former Boy Scout has a real leg up in carrying out that kind of program. Link to post Share on other sites
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